SPEAKER_00 0:00

A rising tide lifts all boats. This principle defines the life and work of Matt Carpenter. Matt built the second largest college campus ministry in its association in the country. He's led dozens of overseas mission projects and has raised over 200 leaders who have either started their own ministries or gone into full-time missions. He now leads Rising Tide, a ministry focused on cultural transformation through spiritual leadership, starting first in the home, then broadcasting outward. With Rising Tide, he's led men's reset conferences all over the country. Through his coaching company, Rising Tide Life Coaching, Matt helps marketplace leaders bridge the gap between their faith and their professional influence. Above all, he's a family man, a devoted husband to Kiki Carpenter, and a father to five sons. Welcome to Extreme Sensibility, Matt Carpenter. Well, Matt, thank you for joining us today. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

No, it's valuable to meet me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

That's why I'm here. So I'm excited to be here. We appreciate it. And uh, you know, the inaugural interview and the I know I feel I feel privileged. Like I get to break in the new studio. Well, you even helped help set it up. We we got to hang some things. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_06 1:37

I'm gonna for the rest of the time I'm gonna watch the watch the podcast and be like, yeah, I did that.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

That's awesome. I appreciate you coming, looking forward to this talk. Yeah, we're gonna cover some some great points. Hopefully, people out there will will uh hear some things that are meaningful for them and their life and uh looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So um just a little bit about yourself, you know. Let's uh we've done the intro, but uh kind of uh cover some bases. Where'd you come from?

SPEAKER_06 2:06

Kind of uh Yeah, uh maybe just try and hit hit a couple high spots. I I grew up in Nebraska um and grew up in a in a non-Christian and I would say somewhat dysfunctional home, although I I'm not sure if there is ever a perfectly functional home. Uh but uh but we definitely had our fair share of of you know like abuse, addiction, uh that that wasn't just even my just my parents, it was like going all the way back. Yeah. And and so there was like generational uh dysfunction that I kind of stepped into. And and you know, that when I guess when you experience that as a child, that's just the only reality that you know. Uh, and it's not that you don't know any better, because inside you know there's something not right about this, but you just don't even know what right is for sure. And uh, and so, you know, I think for a lot of my childhood, I held on to our family, even though it was dysfunctional as as the core of security, and and even held on to the promises of my parents that was, oh, we'll do better, you know, we'll we're sorry, and and we'll make it right, right, and we'll always be together, we love each other, and and I held on to that as not like truth, but as security until it became not true. And and so I was I was like 10, 11 years old when my parents had split up and we're gonna get a divorce, and and and over not just one thing, lots of things. And and so it was at that moment that I was actually I was in the floor, sitting on the floor of my dad's apartment in his kitchen while he was taking a shower, and and I don't know what I said to God. I just knew at that moment that I needed more than me. Right. And I prayed some kind of a prayer. It certainly wasn't a sinner's prayer, you know, like the the way that we rehearsed. Right. Because I didn't, I it's not they had never been to church. It was just church was a it was a Christmas, Easter thing that that was when is this gonna be over? And so I can go do something with my friends, you know. That was what my experience with church was. And but I just knew I needed something more than me. And and probably at that point, it was I needed security, I needed some stability in a really unstable scenario. Right. And I reached out to God and God met me. And so that's where Jesus became real to me, and that's that's probably where my real story began. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Uh well that's a you know, having been through ups and downs, and I'm sure lots of people out there can can relate uh to that, just like you alluded to. Nobody's family is perfect, uh, some are much, much worse than others. Um, and those empty promises, yeah. You know, that's one of the things that I've recognized in my faith journey, and it became really profound uh hearing that from you, is that while moms and dads and all uh the humans that surround us uh can be well-meaning, they let you down.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

And that is one thing that Jesus Christ is not going to do. Yeah, you're right. He's not gonna let you down. And having that base of stability in the chaos of life uh can really help guide a life, especially as young as you were, you know, uh, and um kind of uh set a new course and give you that protection and that direction.

SPEAKER_06 5:42

So from the yeah, no, and even in that, you know, I had a conversation with my with my dad actually just uh man, this was probably three weeks ago now, when he was down visiting and and like he was talking about a lot of stuff in the past, and uh and it wasn't a great conversation, wasn't focused on great things, uh, but I just kind of stopped him in the middle of it. I was like, you know, I was like, Dad, here's the thing. Uh you did a lot of stuff that hurt mom and that hurt me and hurt my sister. Uh and mom did stuff that hurt you and hurt me and hurt my sister, and we did stuff that hurt you guys. Right. And what you call that is you call that family. Uh actually you call that any relationship with another human. Right. That the moment you decide you're going to love somebody, you've made yourself vulnerable to them, and they can hurt you more than anybody else can hurt you. Absolutely. Uh now the presence of hurt is universal, but your response to it is unique.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 6:47

And and I and what I said to my dad is all of that stuff, I said, Dad, I forgive you. And and I want you to forgive me. And but here's what I know from scripture. And I I this is I I can't remember exactly what this is. Psalm, I I can't remember, but it says, Don't you know that your days are numbered by God, but also you must interpret your lives correctly correctly. And there's a narrative we can all write of our lives, and we can pull out the worst circumstances, and we can claim victimhood, and then we can project that forward into a prophetic word, right? Right. Or we can look back, and this is what I was saying to my dad, and this is what I believe of my life is every one of those nights when I woke up with my parents yelling, or my dad was abusing my mom, or the the affairs, or whatever it was, or the alcoholism, all of that God used to shape me into the man that I am.

SPEAKER_03 7:45

Right.

SPEAKER_06 7:46

And without it, I wouldn't be that man. Exactly. And and that's where God I you know continued then my story, you know, and it and it really through redemption. I mean, like I I really should have been an addict, I should have been abusive, uh, I should have been all of those things that were all in my family history. Uh, but by the grace of God, uh, there's a different story. He delivered you.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Yeah, you know, and that's one of the things that uh having lived a life now, um, lived a life without Christ for a majority of it. Um, but lived a very diverse life. Um, you know, you learn that while the difficult times are difficult, they're gut-wrenching, they're testing. Uh, sometimes you don't see how you can get yourself out of them, um, which can be very lonely without Christ in your life. Um, you do recognize that they are setting the stage of your development as a person. Um, that without them you don't know. You haven't lived it. Yeah. And that happens at all different types and and and phases of life, and and yours having been through pretty intense, I can tell talking to you, that especially at 11, you know, that's a very influential time in your life and and where you're really clinging to the parents still being on a pedestal, you know, and you need that. Um, you know, but being able to have had that experience as torturous as it as it is, you know, it gave you that recognition and and connection there, that desire to reach out that wouldn't have been there had you been living a cookie-cutter, beaver cleaver existence. And look at where you're at now. Yeah, that set that stage and that ability, you know, I look at it as well, that ability to relate, that having walked in those shoes of others that are struggling, um, and knowing where they stumble, knowing where their insecurities are, and knowing what you went through and what delivered you through that process, I think that that is God's work, yeah, right there. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, obviously that's been something that you've been able to bring to light and uh through the right.

SPEAKER_06 10:18

Well, I think you said it really well, Gabe. That is God's work. God's work has always been a redemptive work uh from the beginning, from the garden. It's been to take death, destruction, evil uh and to make it into good again. Right. Uh and that's what he's really good at. Uh and and so yeah, and that's like so much it is the story of my life. And and I, you know, like I it was uh it was incredible to get to talk to you even kind of before we we uh turned on the mics, just of of your story of of surrender uh that was a yielding of strength, not a participation of weakness. Exactly. Uh and and in that it's like you're you're actually becoming you. Uh and you're not running away from you, and you're not trying to be somebody else. And and I think that's that if I look back on my life, like I I feel like that's the journey I'm still on, Gabe, is I'm trying to just become me. More of you. Yeah, the best version of me, who God made me to be. Right. And that cultural change started with my own heart. Uh, and then very quickly I saw it starting to impact around me. Right. And that built expectation, or faith is probably the right word, but it it was just expectation of like, wow, God, you're real. You're real inside, but you're becoming real around my life. And and God redeemed a lot of things in my family in the in the time that followed me committing my life to Christ at 11.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Right.

SPEAKER_06 11:50

Uh, and then I started to believe that God was the God of the Bible. And the things that he did in the Bible, he still would do today, that he was the same.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Oh, you're starting to see the effect. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:05

And I didn't have anybody that could convince me otherwise. And and I would say there's a lot of what I experienced kind of in in church, and I put air quotes because like the true church of Jesus Christ has has right expectations or high expectations of God. But I think there's a lot of what we call church that ends up being just participation in rituals and religion with low expectations of God, high expectations of humanity, uh, but low expectations of that's a great way of putting that.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

And I hadn't really thought of it in that context. Obviously, I have had my views on organized religion in the past and and its successes and failures. Um, but that expectation of God's power in in the whole equation is something that I hadn't really thought through, but that's a that's a great point. So all of this development as a as a child and seeing God work through your family to kind of bring them in, you know, I'm assuming that that started the process of getting your calling. You you know, you started feeling that that calling, that movement. When did it really start aligning for you? Of what is my life going to be from this point forward?

SPEAKER_06 13:27

Yeah, that's a great, great question. I think, you know, a lot of times people talk about calling, especially in ministry, they talk about it as often even a once-off thing, you know. Well, I was called at this point. Uh, I actually don't think that's the way that it works. Um, and it's not how it worked in my life. It it was more, it was maybe more incremental in my realization. But my realization was was that of hearing that this is who God has always made me to be. Uh and and even, you know, the way that the way that even Hebrews talks about this is it says, today, if you will hear his voice and not harden your heart, uh, then he will give you a Sabbath rest or a place where you're always in God's presence. And so we we have this word that we use for our job that's called vocation. Uh and we've got other ones, you know, occupation or or just job, you know, I got a J-O-B. Uh, but vocation, actually, root of that word is voice. Uh, and so whatever we do, no matter if it's and what I started going towards is engineering, because like I I've always been good with math and science, so that always came easy to me. So that was like, this was my ticket, man. Like to have the American dream. You know, it was like I'm gonna use this mind uh with engineering and I'm a lot of money, man. I'm gonna chase it. Yeah, and I'm gonna have a big house and a big car and a beautiful wife, and you know, like the the American dream. And uh, and and honestly, the nothing was standing in my way. I was like a straight A student in in in engineering school and kind of had it all the way laid out in front of me. I was halfway through my junior year, and I just got to this uh probably another crossroads, I would say. Right. Uh, that was a crossroads, probably a vocation uh that was, and it wasn't necessarily that I couldn't do engineering, I just couldn't do engineering for the reasons why I was doing it. Right. And and so I had a value like moment or vision that was what's actually valuable. Uh, and is it all of that stuff? Is it the the house, the car, the wife, even the kids, uh the heritage, all that stuff, or is it God's presence? And and I think that's the place where I was in Lincoln, Nebraska, halfway through my junior year in engineering, and I just felt like, man, I can't keep on doing this, at least not for these reasons. Right. And and that vocation, like hearing, I think we're meant to hear God's voice consistently uh and respond to that.

SPEAKER_00 16:06

I love the I love the term vocation. I'm chewing on that one a little bit, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:10

I mean, honestly, there's probably a whole podcast around that. Yeah, that's that it's like, how do you live not being in a job? Okay, which I think is job is like slavery. Right. And there's so many men, I think that they just go to they just go to slave away every day. Yep. That's why they call it the grind. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Man, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_06 16:27

Man, I'm just grinding. Yeah, why? Because you're getting ground down every day.

SPEAKER_03 16:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 16:31

And just getting worn out. And and it's a prison that in America we make for ourselves, but but it still is the job. And that's I think that's uh honestly, I think that's even represented Old Testament in in uh in in Egypt. That was slavery, that was the job, and it was Pharaoh. Right. What does the boss say? You gotta do what the boss says.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Yeah, the independence and freedom that vocation gives you is uh is pretty awakening. Yeah um if you follow follow that directive. It's yeah, it's tough. I mean, I struggle through it and have my entire life, you know, of you know, I wasn't looking for God in my life necessarily. I was succeeding in what I thought I was supposed to be doing. I mean, I was making money, I had a family, I had a big house, I had had all of the material things, and we went on trips and we had boats and we did all those things. I was succeeding by society standards, yeah. But I was unfulfilled spiritually. Yeah. And I was unfulfilled, I guess, in my vocation. Yeah, you know, yeah. I had plenty of jobs.

SPEAKER_06 17:46

No, and I think you're I mean, you're that that I think that's so many men's stories, you know, like that is I I've got success, especially when you get to be our age, you know. It's like, I mean, and and not that everybody succeeds, uh, because there's the other part of that too, that it's like I've failed. Right. Uh, and and everybody experiences some or both of those things. But even if you feel like I've succeeded, you can get to a spot where you're like, I've got success, but I've got no significance. The empty success. And it's just it's just empty.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

What have I brought to people? You know, what what how have I impacted society? What's left when uh my bones turned to ashes? Have I have I left anything? You know, and that's uh that's a big and and you're right, at our age, especially, you know, we start looking at that. Um, you know, what what have I done? What have I built? Yeah, you know, where am I going from here? Yeah, that's a few more good years left in the tank, and uh let's make a difference. So you um you had that revelation?

SPEAKER_06 18:45

Yeah, right. Yeah, I think I hit that crossroads, thanks be to God, like at that at that stage in life, and I made a a really distinct and what I believed was sacrificial choice. Uh, and I felt like I was choosing poverty. Uh, and I believed with, I really believed I'd be poor for the rest of my life. Uh and I and you were okay with it. And I and I was okay with it because I I truly had found a greater treasure. Uh and and so I committed at that point uh to to God's mission that I saw the opportunity of other people being at that crossroads that was on the college campus. And and really believing that was a bottleneck and broadcast point for cultural transformation. That's what I saw it as. Absolutely. Uh, it was like this funnel that went into there. And I'm not saying everybody goes to college, but like there was a funnel that went into there and then that that sprayed out from there. Right. And it was a bottleneck and broadcast for culture.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

You know, and uh absolutely in in so many ways. And I think that that is why the college campuses and the educational institutions have been the battleground for so many years, um, even beyond our well beyond our lifetime. Um, you know, because, and I got to thinking about it the other day, you know, why is that we can look at their age and the influence, it's kind of the last influential stage of life en masse, you know, just because they they're not quite adults yet, you know, they haven't experienced real life for the most part. I'm speaking generalities, but I think it's beyond that. You know, with while everybody doesn't go to college, for the most part, the ones that do and and complete partially or uh get their degrees move out into society into positions that do have some influence in our society. Um, and so what they learn and how they're influenced within the institutions is what they carry forth into our society at a different level than just general population. And I believe that that's why it has been so targeted for so long and has had the ripple effect uh that that it has in changing society. Um, you know, and and back to you know uh Charlie Kirk, I mean, obviously he identified that having been a young guy, being been in college, been surrounded by it, and and a Christian and a intelligent person wanting to make a difference and and filling a calling, you know, that's where he decided to to go, kind of like like you.

SPEAKER_06 21:39

Yeah, yeah. And I I I think with God's help, I saw or I saw the opportunity and heard the voice that was I've made you for this, made you for this season of life. And uh, and so I just dove in, you know, we we so for twenty six years, twenty seven years. Actually, I devoted myself as a full-time missionary to the university campus with the hope of cultural transformation and that belief that if God would do something that would change the culture at the institution, then the waters that everybody swam in, they would be brought out, broadcast out from there different. Right. And and I had a lot of hope and I had a lot of faith. And I and I just had a lot to try, if I'm honest. I just was like, I'm just willing to go for it. Right. And and I what what we did is we just devoted ourselves to discipleship and and discipleship on campus with students. And and we and we try to live as open with our lives and try to get students to live as open as possible. And that was something they weren't a lot of them experiencing in a church scenario. Right. It was just put on the front and go through the motions.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

One of the biggest turnoffs uh for that, especially as a young individual, trying to find your place, exploring uh, you know, philosophies and and theory, and uh, you know, your brain is is blown wide open through uh you know that age, especially in a university setting. Um, but seeing unshielded realities, you know, and uh, you know, where uh it it's an actual person, it's an actual life lived, it's real talk about things, uh, that becomes much more of an open door for us. What were your biggest challenges? I mean, what did you I know again speaking in generalities, but um the challenges, the successes. I mean, when you had uh kids that kind of like me, you know, uh had grown up in church, but it was just it was something to do, you know. Yeah. It w they didn't really fully appreciate or understand. They had apprehension about it, they had a bad view of religion or church or organized religion. I mean, what did you see as your biggest challenge? And then also, you know, how did you judge your success and all this?

SPEAKER_02 24:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:23

You know, I think uh there was a little bit of a different shade to challenges, whether, you know, when we were in Minnesota and Montana versus then in Arkansas, which was kind of heavily Bible built in. Right, that that the religious kind of challenges in in Arkansas were were like way more elevated than they were, you know, up north. It was it was a lot more people up there were just like, I didn't know. Uh and then a lot more people in the south were like, no, I know. But they again they they knew the wrong thing, maybe, or they had the wrong view of God. And and so fundamentally, I think the challenge is always can can we can we present Christ in a way that's more accurate so that people can actually see him? Now, what that requires, at least uh what I've always believed is is that's not about can I project perfection, uh, but I believe that our role is always meant to be more like a window than it is a painting. Right. Uh and a window does its best when it's seen through, not when it's seen. Right. Uh and so, but that requires a level of like transparency, vulnerability, uh, public confession that that so the biggest challenge was to just kind of remove all of the fake and the facade. And can we just see a real God and see him as a real people? Uh, and then can we do something about it? Okay. So the the second challenge I would say was a challenge of inactivity. Right. Uh, that I I think there's so much in modern Christianity that's been wrapped up in either uh, oh, you want to be a Christian? Here's what you need to stop doing. Or you're gonna be a Christian now, do these activities that are actually like more passive than they are active. Right. Uh and what what I've always believed and what I've tried to live by is putting challenge in front of people of what we can do, what we need to do, and to do it with God, with Christ. Because I think that's the God of the Bible. He's just waiting for us to partner with him in like this massive plan to bring cultural transformation and his image to be broadcast to the ends of the earth. And so Gabe, once I would talk for that, man, yeah, and I would talk with the young man that would be sitting in the chair, right? And I'd be like, Man, do you understand what God has made you for? And that this is the potential that is inside of you. And that if you would just surrender everything that you are to God's plan, man, he would uh he would not only make you something great, he'd use you for something great. Right. And they'd they'd they'd have the accurate uh expectation in their eye, the gleam in their eye that would be like, Really? Like God would do that with me and for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Right. Yeah, and it's uh, you know, uh everyone is looking in a w their own way for that calling. You're right, you're right. They don't quite know how it's all supposed to be or how it's pieced together. They can't fathom the grandeur of what it it can be either. But so many uh one of the things that I uh have just witnessed even before I was a believer, but is the um what we continue to get wrapped back into the societal gauge of success. And we also one of the things that I've seen is we're we're real quick to say, my life is going to shit. My life is crap. Yeah, you know, look at all the negative. God doesn't exist, God isn't real because I'm having difficulty in my life. Yes. The thing that I have experienced recently, and then looking back reflectively through my life, is nothing I have done that was worth doing was easy. None of it was easy. Right. Yeah. Um the things that were the most difficult that came at the worst times ended up being the most rewarding in the end. And in my limited newbie view of Christianity and submission and listening to God is that his plan for you isn't your plan. Yeah, you know, yeah, it it it is it is there for you, yeah, but it's not always what you want. Yeah, you're not gonna make God obey you. Right, right. Yeah, it's there for you to follow, and that's why we're sitting here today. Right. This podcast couldn't have come at a more chaotic time in my life. Um, but it was something for the first time in my life, I felt I need to do something beyond a financial business or something. Sounds like a vocation to me. It it it was it was my first out of the 20 odd jobs that I've had throughout my life, this is my first vocation. Yeah. So I appreciate you uh putting that into perspective.

SPEAKER_06 30:00

Yeah, no, I mean I can tell you're you're alive, you know, like you're coming alive doing it. You can tell.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Well, and uh, you know, it's uh it's one of those things where um while even as a non-believer, I did believe in a God, and there were times where I'd hit brick walls and I'd be like, God, I don't know what I don't know what to do. Um it was more to make myself feel better, you know. Sure. Uh this is the first time that uh now, you know, I'm like, Might's coming in. Gosh, I'm nervous. Yeah, I don't know what we're gonna talk about. But then I'm like, ah, God, you got this. You're gonna you're gonna go hide the way here. Yeah today we're gonna come up with some meaningful content and and change some lives, hopefully, in the you know, um, but you know, I the ministry at the collegiate level is a fascinating thing just because of all of the challenges that these kids are are going through have come from, misconceptions, and we all know that uh from 18 to 22, we know everything already. You know, uh if I was as smart now as I thought I was then, I mean, we would take over the world. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 31:19

So, you know, uh which I found it to be this sweet spot though, you know, that I I think a lot of people look at it and they they see it negatively. Oh man, like that's all the bad stuff that happens there, all the bad ideologies there, or or even just they look at it as hopeless. But for me, I I feel like I found this sweet spot that was it was like the the passion of youth, okay, uh, but combined together with the freedom of an adult, okay, and newly married together. Okay. Yeah. Uh uh along with this, I've now been transplanted in community. Uh and so maybe for the first time in a long time, I'm open to being somebody else, right, uh and being a part of something else. Okay. And so it was like this really beautiful, beautiful space to where if if I would just speak the truth of God and then really actually try to live it out, uh, it was like people were coming alive, you know. Right. You see that smart. And also, I think it was an insulation for me for a lot of years, to be honest, Gabe, from from a lot of kind of the religious atmosphere. Okay, because even though I was a minister and I was very much around ministers, I was a part of a denomination, I was an ordained minister. Uh the the university campus was a beautiful insulation.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

Give you some freedom.

SPEAKER_06 32:47

It really was. And and and I I feel like I need to say this just to put context on when I'm saying church or religious institution, okay. I I very much believe in being a committed critic. You know, you got to remember I've got like this analytical engineering mind that like I'm I'm I'm good at seeing a problem. Right. Uh, I'm really good at it. And I'm pretty good at like working towards a solution. Like I'm I'm able to take a lot of information and process it and get towards a solution, right? Right. And and so what I believe in is I believe in being a committed critic. And what I what I mean with that is I don't think you should ever be committed to something that you're not critical of.

SPEAKER_03 33:26

Right.

SPEAKER_06 33:26

Including your own life. Absolutely. Including your own family. Nobody's more critical of Matt Carpenter than Matt Carpenter, I promise you. And there's some people are pretty critical of me. Right. But nobody's more committed to me either. Right. Same thing of my family, same thing of the university ministry I was leading. Nobody's more critical of it than I was.

SPEAKER_03 33:45

Right.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

Uh, but nobody's more committed to it. And I feel the same way about the church. Okay. So anytime I'm saying something that sounds critical, it's only because I'm super committed. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Uh, and I want it to be better. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the things that faith offers us. It offers us that ability to be critical of self.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

And not beating yourself down. Yeah, and not to just end in change. Truly constructive criticism. Yeah. How do I get better? The only person that knows me better than myself is God. Um, so I'm right next in line to analyze and correct to be a better person, to have a better result, to impact more people in a more profound way.

SPEAKER_06 34:29

And actually, somebody's going to walk along with you as you become that. Right. That Christ can actually do that. The Holy Spirit can make you.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yes. Yeah. So, you know, uh talking about that, um, you uh do you have any like impactful, transforming, you know, uh examples, you know, of of someone who came to you in a certain state and and you were able to help guide them along a life and and where are they now? You've been doing 27 years? Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:01

So yeah, only a few thousand stories. Only a few, yeah. Yeah. I mean, and that's true. That's amazing. I mean, I I think in, you know, in the time that we were on campus, we'd gosh, there was, I mean, there were even some years where we'd see 160, 180 students water baptized in a year uh on a university campus uh and and saw so many uh people come in as freshmen, either I mean anything from an atheist or an agnostic to a born in church that had very transformative experiences with Christ. And it really was in new community. Okay. Uh and and so, and in four to six or seven years, or whatever it was, you know, like saw incredible transformation in life after life after life after life, even to the point of over the the 25 years we were at at University of Central Arkansas, we saw God raise up and send out over 200 full-time missionaries. That's amazing. Uh all over the world, right? All over the world from a secular university campus, not a Bible school, you know, like uh they came in with one agenda, one direction for their life. And God not only altered their identity, he changed their vocation. Uh, and you know, and whether it be sent across seas or just to other campuses across the United States, I mean, God God helped us to pioneer university ministries across multiple states, all the way up to Maine, and even Harvard and MIT, uh, some of the most prestigious campuses in America. Uh, and then of course. All the engineers that are gonna pick it apart and analyze. Absolutely. And and what I what I guess what I saw through that game was I saw that what God had done in my own heart and in my own small little circle, that it was like being broadcast out from there. And that it it worked, so to speak, in other people's lives. And it and it worked to transform not just one campus, UCA, and not just a few campuses, Arkansas Tech, Hendricks, UALR, UAPB, like those are all campuses that we kind of first planted out into, right? But then it was like, man, all the way to Mozambique and 40 some campuses across Mozambique.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Well, that was uh one when I heard Mozambique, I mean, that uh not only amazing, uh, but true missionary level um uh of commitment into that uh that world with the battles that are fought there through ideologies um that you'll lose your arms, legs, head, life, everything over, you know. Yeah. And um, you know, does Mozambique does it seem to be the one that is kind of is that y'all's I would say most extreme example, or have y'all been into some other area?

SPEAKER_06 38:10

I guess it I guess extreme is always in in a different context. Like I mean, that's very culturally different context than UCA. Right. Than redneck, you know, like uh Arkansas. Um I I do think what I continue to find, and and actually I'll leave this next I'll leave this next Sunday to go over to Namibia, Zambia, and then South Africa. Okay. Uh and what I continue to find is people are people. Right. Uh and so and there we're all dealing with the same things. Uh and that's why the same truth works for all of us. Yeah, you know. Uh, and so there are defin there, you know, I've definitely been in some extreme contexts. Uh, but as far as the the strategies of the enemy and the strategy of god strategies of God, they they're the same. Right. Uh, which is beautiful to me. It is. And it actually gives me hope.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

And the yeah, the commonalities that we all face as humans when you boil it all down are the same. And that's why scripture and the life that Christ and and the Bible teach, you know, holds true. I mean, yeah, it is truths that have been established for eons now. You're right. You know, and um, you know, truths are just that. They don't vary, you know, and uh I was talking to the boys uh the other day, you know, I said, there is not another book in existence that every problem that you will face in life, there's an answer for it, yeah, right there. And I said, that's that's pretty powerful. We had a pretty extensive library back, you know, before we had access to the internet, but even the internet itself, you know, uh doesn't hit at that at that level. Um, you know, so it's uh that's amazing. The uh yeah Africa, I've got a lot of friends that are uh from Africa have done mission work there, mainly in the medical uh end of it. And you know, that is truly turning into the battleground, you know, for uh Christianity and and Islam and um and so many other factors involved with the population there. And it's so important that uh you know the right people are placed in that and and what a sacrifice uh of the believers there. I mean, you look at what's going on in Nigeria, for instance, and yeah, and the battles there. I mean, it just we think that we sacrifice here.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

We have no idea what what's going on. Yeah, you're right. Or the level, you know, that that is happening on the ground. And I know each country's different, has their different challenges, but um, but yeah, pretty fascinating. I admire the people that are giving their life to to go um minister and and um be true missionaries in in those environments.

SPEAKER_06 41:20

Um I think I I think no matter what the context is, and this is this is probably brings brings us up to more current date now, that uh what I saw God do, not just in my life, but then in my own family, uh, and then on campus, campus after campus after campus, I I believed then that those principles applied in simple ways could change any culture. And I just like my faith just grew to that place. Now I did have people kind of tell me along the way that's like, oh man, no, that's great what you're doing on campus. Kind of too bad that doesn't work in the real world. Right. And and then I'd I'd push back a little bit, I'd be like, okay, explain what you mean. And most of the time I'm now having a conversation with the clergy. Okay. Uh and and they would say, Well, you know, well, those those kids, you know, those young people, they got a lot of time and they got a lot of energy, and they got a and and what we're dealing with, and I understand that the struggle in it, okay. Yeah, they're dealing with busy people with busy lives. Okay. Uh, and so then they would say something along the lines of, well, you know, like once people graduate, and then now they're married, and and then they've got a full-time job, and then they've got kids, and they've got all their kids' activities. And and now we're just describing every middle-aged person's life, basically, right? Uh and and but they would communicate that as a as a reason why then discipleship or true challenge doesn't work. And what I would say sometimes, and sometimes I just say it internally because they didn't want to hear it. Right. Uh and you don't try not to make a practice of telling people what they don't want to hear, uh, in unless you want to make a lot of enemies, you know. Uh and so so uh what I would say though is I think that illustrated their belief system that what they believed church was for, and and what they needed to do is to get people out of their busyness, which meant get them out of their marriage, get them out of their home, get them out of the out away from their kids and out of sports and out of their jobs in order to get Christ into them. And I don't think that was ever God's plan. Right. I don't think it was ever God's plan, Old Testament or New Testament. I think God's plan was always to get his kingdom into every part of our lives. Every part.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 43:56

And so that's where I'm at right now, Gabe. Is I I'm now leaving. Leading over the last couple of years, leading a discipleship ministry that's focused first on men. But it's about discipleship that starts with right in our homes and then broadcast out to every every area of culture. And so with that, uh, you know, I'm leading these men's resets that are like retreats, but it really is like a I don't think we need to retreat anymore. No, I think we need to fight. Yes, exactly. And we need to hit the reset button in our lives and remember what's actually valuable.

SPEAKER_00 44:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 44:31

And then we need to reset things.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

Yeah, that's uh one of the things that you know I've noticed in being able to go back to church now in a different mindset, is that it is it's a reset. You know, what church is for me now is a recharge, a reset, yeah, a reminder. Yeah. It's the power of community and God working through that. It's that energy that you pick up on.

SPEAKER_02 45:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:04

Um, and then you're a little better prepared to go back out.

SPEAKER_02 45:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

And carry that with you into every part of your life. And um, you know, so that bringing church and bringing God's teachings into your life, people need to recognize that it can work both ways. Yes. I think we all kind of, uh especially, you know, some of the ministers that I've known throughout my life and and again in reflection, yeah, everybody kind of gets bottled into their own little worlds, you know, their own realities, their day-to-day existence. And I, you know, uh ministers are just human stuff. And uh, and I think that they kind of come into that. But your your statement of you know, bringing that out into every part of your of your life is is very meaningful, very profound, and needs to be kept in mind, you know, with with all of us that are going to church. That's not when you walk out the door, that's you don't leave it behind. That's right. You carry it out, you bring it, bring it through, you know, and talking about the fight, I feel very strongly about that component of it. Um you know, and feel very strongly about uh the fact that we are um in a battle, a spiritual battle, could be a physical battle. They all kind of intertwine at different levels, but you know, the um depends on where you're at in the world and what you're surrounded by. Do you see a challenge, you know, um in the United States as opposed to, for instance, Africa, you know, like the the devil at work? Is it uh is it the same universally, or do you see a different level of challenge or a different direction that you're you're seeing over there than than we are here?

SPEAKER_06 47:06

Um is there I would say it's there's a part of it that is universal, that is Satan, which is not a name, it's actually a title. It means that the one who accuses uh is is always trying to undermine the image of God. Okay. Now, what that accusation sounds like in your head and in my head is often it's an accusation against our identity. And so he's constantly trying to say, nope, Gabe, this is who you're not. This is who you're not. Question your not. Uh the same accusation he tried to use against Christ, you know, like if you really are the son of God, this is who you're not, this is who you're not, right? Right. And and so that's universal. Uh, it's and it's always an undermining of the image of God. Now he does it strategically in different times and different places, based on probably cultural history and present context. Uh, but I think that's universal. Uh, and I think that's absolutely where we find ourselves in America, you know, is I I think there's a a a great undermining of true godly masculinity.

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 48:18

Uh that and true godly femininity as well. Uh, but we're right now we're talking two men right now. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we're we're not experts on the part, but so what I believe is like what you said, you're attached to the fight. Okay. Uh and why? Well, it's probably because you've got that in you. You know, you've got some say I want in you, you know, that's like, uh no, tell me I can't do something, right? And I'll show you I can't. And and your your life actually proves that. Uh, that you've got fight in you. Uh you've got ambition, you've got drive, you got desire, and you're willing to put it on the line. Uh, I mean, and I've only known you for a little bit, and I know that that's true. Well, okay. Uh but you want something worthwhile to fight for, right? And and this is where I think we're we've lost it in our society with men, Gabe, is I think that we've been been convinced, uh, whether it be by secular culture or by Christian culture, okay. I think we've become convinced that fighting is bad. Right. Uh and the building is bad, that adventuring, like all this, all these desires.

SPEAKER_00 49:32

Masculine trait that can be identified as such is being attacked. Yeah across the board. I agree with that. Um, you know, and and it's not just that it is being done right now, it has been done for a while. And that is one of the the most alarming things that I've seen occur because you are taking a population, our sons, our grandsons, all of these influential men in development, and you're being they are being told what you are feeling and desiring is not only not right, it is evil, it is toxic, suppress it, you're an idiot, you're a monster, you're a this, you're a that. That is terrifying.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

And when they are told that from it's a very orchestrated methodology. Um, but when they are told that, maybe not by their parents, but every time they pick up their phone, every time they turn on the TV, it's being fed to them a bite at a time. Then they don't know who they are. Yeah. And when you don't know who you are, you're not only able to be controlled, but you're miserable, you're unfulfilled, you're hateful, you're resentful, and you're lost. And you don't fulfill any role. Yeah. Because we you're not desirable for anything other than a pawn for someone else at that point. And I thank the Lord daily that at least I grew up where I grew up, when I grew up, with strong, albeit flawed at times, we all are, yeah, male, masculine role models. Yeah. Um, and have been able to carry that forward with my sons as well. You know, it's a it's a line to walk. There is a level that does become oppressive. We have that power within us to do that. It's been there's examples of it for throughout history. Um, but the benevolence and the influence and the ability to carry on beyond through generations of that influence, through being men in a responsible way, is just, you know, the the fulfillment that that offers you. And having a partner in life that recognizes that, respects it, and desires it. Yeah. And allows them to fulfill their role. Do the things that only they can do, the beautiful things that God, the gifts that God gave them and our wives and our and the women, you know, to be able to nurture and one of the most important jobs that any human could ever have, to be able to nurture a life and bring a life into this earth and nurture it as only a mother can and be protected while she does it. Yeah. And supported while she does it. Allows both entities to exist like we're meant to be, biologically, societally. Yes. All it checks a lot of boxes. Yeah, absolutely. And it gives you that strength and fulfillment of knowing who you are, what your purpose is, why you are doing it, why you're fighting the good fight, and you combine Christianity into that, and you talk about a shield against the bad out there.

SPEAKER_06 53:39

Um, maybe even more than a shield. Maybe actually, I mean, the way that the way that Jesus talks about this thing that you just described, that is, and if we can just do this right, and if we'll if we will take up God's image and fight for it, and if we weren't meant to fight, why do we need an armor? Right. You know, like why would there be an armor of God if we aren't somehow made to fight? Right. But if we'll actually take that up, Jesus says to to Peter, okay, this one he has given new identity to, uh, and he said, you know, like you're no longer Simon, I call you Peter. And on the revelation I've given you, not on Peter's person, but on the revelation of God that made Peter who he was. Okay. He says, I will build my church, my true church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And and that's where I'm that's what I fully believe, okay, is that I'm not trying to live my life, my family with this protective force of like, oh, there's all this bad out there that I just got to make sure it doesn't get in. Right. No. Man, like we're on the offense. Exactly. Isn't that where we're meant to be? Absolutely. Uh otherwise, why does it need to talk about the gates of hell? And and when we convince ourselves that's like, oh man, there's all this evil out there and it's coming for me, it's coming before me, I just need to protect. Well, what's what's Satan attacking us with his gate? It's not an offensive weapon. Like we're the ones that have been equipped for the fight. Yes. And and if we would just, and this is what I believe, Gabe, is I just believe if we as men and women too, but I'm talking we're men, right? If we'd get back in the fight, yeah, and realize there's more to Christianity. And and this is something I again, I think that there's I think there's so many men that believe in God that do not find a place for themselves in church anymore. Frankly, because I think there's a lot of truly masculine men that just find it way too effeminate. Right. And they're like, so I'm just gonna go sit and sing. And I don't think there's anything wrong with sitting and singing. Right. Okay. Uh but how does that awaken the desires of a man? How does it align with who we are? Yeah. And then it's like, well, okay, well, I'm sitting and singing. But like, and then even if you're convinced that, man, there's something more for me here, then you're like, okay, so what do I do? What is it? And they're like, well, serve and give. Just make sure you serve and give. Again, it's like, okay, I'll do that. And a lot of men will do that. Right. But then where is that desire? What do we do with all that masculine desire that's like, I want to fight, I want to build, I want to grow, I want to defend honor, I want adventure. What do we do with all of that? Right. It either atrophies or we say, well, if I can't fulfill that here in this space. And by the way, just go home and read and pray. Which again, I'm not at all against reading and praying. Right. But but where's the fight? Yeah. You know, and so then we go find somewhere else to do that, right? Or we'll just go watch somebody do that. Why why is MMA so huge?

SPEAKER_00 56:55

Because you're in it.

SPEAKER_06 56:56

Men just men, if men can't fight, they want to watch somebody fight. Exactly. Right? Yeah. And and so what if we're a dictator sport. What if we could get back in the fight?

SPEAKER_00 57:05

Right. You know, and I I think that that's where when we we we talk about, or what when I would always think about being a missionary or ministering, you know, that bec it was a very narrow focus. It was a very narrow definition. Yeah. You know, as I've aged, you know, one of those desires that I had even prior to my uh becoming Christian was to offer something for the next generations, was to impact. Gives you a little boost, it gives you a purpose. It does check some of those boxes. Because in order to do that, you have to do a lot of other things. You have to be vulnerable, you have to be strong, you have to be convincing, you have to uh fight sometimes. Yeah, you have to combat against what other things are occurring in the in their life or in society and say, no, this is crap. Yes, no, this is reality, this is truth. It gives you at least a start to that platform, and everyone can do that. Yes. It doesn't have to be some aloof, massive goal. There's a starting point.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:25

And you know, I think that that's one of the important things that we're starting to see now. And maybe it's just because I'm more aware of it, because I'm experiencing it, but at least when I was going through my uh you know, younger years, I didn't see strong masculine men standing up for Christianity, for beliefs, guys that are saying, No, it's not turn the other cheek all the time. No, we're real. Yeah, this is how it's impacted, this is the strength it gives me, this is our battle, this is what we're fighting against. And, you know, giving purpose for that, because that is part, I believe, of the calling, part of the vocation, yeah, part of the alignment that we as Christian men need to embrace. Yes. Uh we're at different stages in life, different abilities, but those basic principles are human principles that can each person can find their own calling within that. And that's just something that we need to open up and embrace. You know, it might we're not all MMA fighters, right? You know, we um, you know, we all bring something unique to the table. And finding where that aligns uh with our desires, our need, our God-given uh purpose, you know, is kind of the the key to the equation in my view of engagement in recharging, in finding that meaning in life. And so much of it goes through family too. You know, I reflect on that.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:21

Well, I think that's where got truly godly men fight for peace. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:27

Because you know what? You know, there's a there's an old Sean Connery quote out of I think Cam Blot or one of those movies. He says, you know, sometimes there's only a peace that can be found on the other side of war. Yeah, which is my you know, horrible. Uh first nature. That's actually a lot better than mine. But uh But I mean, Jesus said it too. Uh, and more importantly that he said it, he says, Blessed are the are the peacemakers. Right. I I think we've misinterpreted that and miscategorized that as blessed are the peacekeepers. Yes. And a peacemaker is an active role that is I'm gonna fight for peace. Yes. A peacekeeper is always a pacifier. I'll just pacify. And that is not what Jesus did. He's not what he's called us to do. He's not called us to be passive or to pacifiers.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:14

Kicking the can down the road. Yeah. You're gonna pay for it, or somebody.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:19

I mean, anybody that's tried to run a business or lead people, uh, you've experienced that, right? It's like every time you've tried to pacify a situation, did it solve it? No, it just made it it made it twice as bad two months later or two years later. Right, right. Uh and anybody that's actually tried to do anything pacifying, they know it's kicking the can.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:39

Yeah. But I like the differential, the peacemaker. Yeah, and that's what Jesus blessed are. And, you know, it starts with the self, you know. Yes. That is where it begins. And, you know, it um and your family and and being able to, you know, to influence them in a way that they succeed in life and they carry it forward. It's like your ministry with the the kids of the campuses, you know, we all have that ability within our own little ecosphere to impact so much more. It it it amplifies out if done in the right way or the wrong way.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:20

No, we have that, you know, that's exactly what I'm even finding. Like, you know, even you know, it uh for years and for thousands of young men and young women, uh I'll watch them sit in a seat and be awakened to not just salvation, but to a purpose in Christ. Right. And them saying, Okay, well, if that's uh if that's what it is, I want to give everything. Now, everything they had was literally sitting in front of me. Right. Right. It was like they're like, I got this jacket and shirt, I got this change in my pockets, and that it's all I got, but I'm ready to give it all. Right. Now, what I'm finding at this stage in my life, and this is what's incredible to me, is I'm finding the same thing to be true with 30-year-olds, 40-year-olds, 50-year-olds, 60-year-olds. That when they actually hear who they are because of whose they are. Okay. Uh, and that that God has chosen them for an eternal purpose, and that they can take these desires that they've felt their whole life and they actually can give them to something more than what uh uh rusts, corrodes, and is stolen. The material. And that that can actually mean that they feel purpose and that they feel uh uh not just success but significance. Yes, that they're like uh man, if that if I could have that chance, I'd give everything. But now everything they have is not sitting in that seat. Yeah, because they've got influence, they've got authority, they've got uh influence and authority in a home, influence and authority in a in a business, in a community. And and what if we could get and I I I think this is your heart. What if we could get these men awakened? Yes. Uh and what if we could turn the tide in in our culture?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

Yeah, and I'm with you on that, uh, a hundred percent. We need to get the people who are leaders to fully grow, to open up, yeah, to see what the real potential is and the real meaning. Um, you know, and that's one of the biggest fears, I'll be honest with you. And and the coming from my journey um into this, you know, it's terrifying for your family to see a person like myself who was very strong in my own belief uh to convert over and to have that potential, you know, because you hear about people giving everything to Christ, you know, turn hey tell more about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:10

Like what was like what was their reaction? Like, how did they how'd that fear come out?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

It uh varied. Um shock, a lot of it was shock. Um, you know, because I never um I never prevented my children, at least knowingly, I never prevented my children from exploring spirituality and religion. Um it was something that I actually encouraged them, but I wanted it to be on their own accord. Sure. Uh I've done that a lot, whether it be career or a guitar on the wall. Yeah. It was there before them, it was up to them to pick it up. Now I also uh expressed my Own personal beliefs. Well, Dad, why do you believe what you believe? Well, I explained to him. And it was very convincing in doing that. But I also didn't recognize the influence fully as a parent that you have in convincing your children that your beliefs are right. Even though that wasn't really my intention. My intention was listen to what I had to say, but pick it apart and go explore it yourself. Yeah. Um, so when I went through uh my awakening in the short term that it happened and the unexpected way it occurred, it was a bit traumatic for my family because of the timing, because of the steadfast belief that I thought I had and the way I believed and the way I uh presented that. And it was basically it was almost a 180 forum. So it shocked them. Yeah. Um they were a little bit like, who is this guy? Who is this guy? Yeah. Yeah, no, exactly. In fact, that came from my wife. You know, she had uh had a desire, she had it wanted us to go to church and one of the children to be baptized, and and all of those things that I just thought were, again, superficial. And, you know, while in my mind I didn't prevent it, I also didn't encourage it because I didn't believe it. Yeah. And uh so when all of a sudden dad has a revelation and awakening, and again, I've always been my own person. I haven't been reactive to influence from others or anything like that. I couldn't afford to do that. You know, I lived in realities that wouldn't allow me to just fly off on this and that. Yeah, sure. You know, so when I did this, I mean, uh questioning my sanity, you know, what's next? It's it's that unknown because I had again uh changed direction so profoundly. Uh and it not only uh affected my beliefs, it affected me as who I was. My energy was different. My it was an unburdening for me, so my peace was different. So I was a different person, yeah, still in the same body, yeah, but I was a different person. And my wife and I have been together since we were 15. Yeah, we've been through a lot. She knows me better than I know myself. Um, and obviously my children have been with me, and we're a tight family. We we roll together. So it was shock. And it was, I think also where okay, you've really rippled the water here. I mean, this one's a big one. Where does this stop? Yeah, you know, uh are we getting ready to sell everything and we're gonna go do mission trips around the world? You know, what it's terrifying because of what we have built in businesses and in life and in expectations. And when you start talking about having a calling, when you start talking about God speaking to you or through you, and that hasn't been in the conversation ever before in your existence. In fact, that was something that turned me against people. Yeah. You're talking to God, God is talking to you. Okay, yeah, okay. Uh, yeah. Well, y'all enjoy that conversation.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:56

What did that look like when basically like when that fear or like kind of the whoa, whoa, whoa, what did that look like when that turned? Uh when it turned as far as when they were like, oh, okay, well, maybe actually this is a different band, but it actually maybe this is a better man or a better version of this band.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

It took a it took time. Uh how long? The the again, we had lots of discussions in this, the why, the what's going on with dad, the this type of thing. All of my children, or both my children and their wives were at different um stages of seeking Christ. Um, but they were both unbeknownst to me, uh, they were both on that quest with their wives, and which was very reassuring. You know, they were like, Dad, we we're in it, we're working towards this too. So that was reassuring that I hadn't totally failed them in my approach to them and their spirituality and my leadership therein. They were still shocked at how I arrived. Sure. And and and the the all the events that occurred prior to that and the short term that it happened and the powerful nature that it happened. Um but the one that uh, you know, it took my wife a a little bit longer. Um she in a nature in her nature is very protective, uh, very guarded. Um, she is the mama bear. And even when that is dealing with her husband, yeah, sure. Um, you know, and so it was the big the biggest effect was to her in who are you? And some resentment as well to why have you led us the way you did? And now you weren't going anyway. You're you found your way. After all these years of me bringing it up, now you're doing this. And you know, so there was some anger, there was some distrust, there was some questioning, there was a lot for a few weeks, you know, that was going on. And all I could tell them is that, you know, in a very calm manner, because that was one of the things that I did experience. It was, you know, it was an unburdening to a level that it was a peace and a calm and almost a high uh for weeks after it happened because of the weight that it lifted off. But I had no idea I was even carrying it. I mean, I I thought I was pretty good, you know. Um, but it allowed me to explain in a very calm uh manner of what was going on with me, and we had very open conversations. I didn't have all the answers. I I wasn't versed in uh, you know, biblical scripture. Right. All I could speak of is what happened happened to me and what was happening.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:11

It's a lot like one of those early disciples. Yeah. Yeah, like yeah, you know, I can't tell you. All I know is I met this guy, yeah, and he changed me.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:18

Exactly. And you know, that was one of the things that I I kind of later on down the road in learning more about the disciples. And one of the things that really reinforced in me this crazy event, this this, you know, what I was feeling and and the reality to me, what it was, is looking at not only the disciples that followed Jesus while he was alive, but what happened after he was crucified, buried, and rose again. Look at their lives after. Yeah. To me, that was more impactful than what they did while Jesus was alive. Yeah. And um, when you look at the sacrifices that they made with their lives after the fact, that is an undeniable, documented, historical fact. Yeah. And it emboldened my little sacrifice that I was making, you know, in doing what I was doing and feeling what I was feeling, and the reality of that, the power of that, the truth and existence of Jesus Christ and who he was, the Son of God. I didn't ever deny that there was a God. Yeah. I didn't think that I was the end-all be-all, but God was who I wanted God to be.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:52

Yeah. Um there wasn't surrender, there wasn't lordship.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

No, there was no surrender. Um, and that was seen as weakness uh by me. I but it is not at all. And, you know, it was just it it's still something that I'm processing. Yeah. And, you know, I didn't hear voices, I didn't have angels floating above me and you know, birds chirping and all that. This was inside. This was deeper than anything else I've ever experienced.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:25

Well, I think you said this earlier, Gabe, that's like you haven't you haven't got any place good that hasn't come through going through something difficult, right? Yep. Uh and and and so even in in your description of coming to Christ, it was through it really was through anguish. Yes. Uh of like, man, what's going on? And and not not just what's going on with the world, but what's going on with me.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:50

Me, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:15:50

And and really this desperation almost of like, I need I need some something more than me. Right. I need a God that's bigger than me. Yes. Uh I don't know. And I need I actually need to surrender rather than just add him on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:06

And that was one of the things that as I was going through that process, you know, um, and it just resounded with me. Yeah, you know, because I'd filled my life with so much to try to make up for the void of not having faith in Christ. My life was just chaos. It was relatively managed chaos, but it was lots of stuff. Uh, lots of action, adventure, business, you know, all of these things that I packed, kept packing and packing and packing in. And, you know, I had to calm myself to receive Christ. Yeah. That was the biggest thing that stuck with me. I knew I needed to do it. I knew it was there. It was just like there was static everywhere. You know, there was just too much. And that's where I've never really been into meditation either. You know, I'm too busy to meditate. You know, I'm I'm man, I'm getting and and going. Um, and that was really the first time that other than doing some diving things, you know, getting our my breath control and uh that type of meditation, I'd never really done that. And it showed me the power of prayer meditation to get your mind right so that you can receive. Yeah, right. So that you can feel it or hear it. I didn't ever hear it, but I felt it. You know it. It it transcends. And you know, if I if you played this recording to me l last year, I would have said you wouldn't believe it yourself. Oh no, no, not at all. I would have said, okay, now which institution is he signing up for? You know, what has this guy done?

SPEAKER_06 1:18:04

But but you're I mean, obviously your your your personal life, like mentality, like seeing peace rather than chaos, seeing uh more at ease rather than striving and trying to just fill stuff up but actually being full, right? And then I guess is that what your wife and your kids are now experiencing too? Is like I mean, we okay, man, like our fears of like, man, we're losing dad, right? Or we're losing, I'm losing my husband. What have they gotten in return?

SPEAKER_00 1:18:40

Well, they've gotten to see that they didn't lose that.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:44

Uh this by no means has ended our struggles in life or with business. I mean, we run a restaurant, we've got a marina, I'm still involved with the body. Well, honestly, you wouldn't like it if it did anyway. No, I don't know. But life without challenge, you'd be bored with. But what it has done is it gives us more purpose and direction. And honestly, I can see through them, you know, their focus now with Christ in their life has more meaning. It gives them that understanding that, yeah, today's rough or this week's been tough. But it gives them that support that they're not walking alone. It's not just that our family, our family's strong. Um, you know, we're all together in it, but it is that whole level beyond us, uh, that confidence that you are moving forward in the right direction, that there is a purpose. You can't always see it, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:19:46

Yeah, there's bigger meaning to what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:48

You are working towards something. So I like looking forward in life, and I like looking backwards in life and seeing how these things evolve. We've got each of us have five decades on, so you've got some time that you can see this and how things that you don't understand develop into other things that become monumental in your life and beyond your life, in others' lives. And, you know, just since uh, you know, having my you know awakening with business, you know, it's we've gone through some tough times. You know, again, that all happened at probably one of the worst times that it could have in our life, just with the everything else that we had going. Um, but you're starting to see it come together now. Not that it's easy, yeah. Not that there aren't daily challenges, but things are coming together beyond what would have been our direction or our ability or within our control. And that is where I'm sure you in your life as a 11-year-old, giving your life to Christ and submitting and seeing how God, once you do that, kind of how it starts impacting your life and the lives of people around you, that's where you're like I know how I feel, but this is re it gives you faith. Yeah, right. More faith than you can imagine to keep going, to keep following, to keep asking, and opening yourself up. That calming yourself to receive. Yeah. When you find yourself spinning and the day is crazy and you're stressed out and you're wanting to pinch somebody's head off or whatever, right? Take a breath, step away, clear your head, and listen.

unknown 1:22:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:00

And that's hard to do sometimes, but that is one of the things that I have done more of than I've ever done in my life. And I believe that it has given me a clarity and direction uh that I never and never would have had had I not gone through what I did. And it I believe that it's carrying over, you know, it with the rest of the family as well. Uh, because as a leader, as the dad, as the business leader, everybody looks to you to see how are you reacting? Are you gonna lose your head on this? Are you gonna stop around and cuss? Are you gonna do something stupid? Or are you gonna ignore it? Are you gonna hide? Yeah, or are you gonna face it, get a plan, move forward, stay calm, stay steady. Everybody else will reflect it. And, you know, so having that extra guidance in life has been amazing, and it was something that I didn't have until this occurred. And that's what I want to share to people because I was sitting in those other chairs. I had the doubt. I looked at people that professed this in a way that I was questioning, and I was like, yeah, that that doesn't align. So um, you know, I'm uh that's one of the things that I'm wanting to do through this.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:36

Well done for having the courage to just dive in. Right. I mean, really, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:41

It it it feels good to talk about it because I'm still processing it, to be honest with you. Probably will forever, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:47

Uh well if you do it right, you probably will forever. Yeah, it's we're supposed to always be discovering, right? It's the glory of God to conceal a matter. Right. It's the glory of kings to uncover it. There you go. And so it really is a glorious thing that we get to constantly discover more of God, right? More of who we are, more of our purpose. Yes. You know, and not supposed to get stagnant.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:08

No, it does, yeah. And life, uh especially, I I know life's always challenged humans, um, but we've definitely got some battles out there. And we get knocked down, you know? Yeah. You it just because you're Christian, just because you're a believer, doesn't mean you're immune to getting knocked down, doesn't mean you're immune to the effects of society, to the pressures of society, to the pressures of family. You know, so how do you handle it? You know, how do you handle the knockdown?

SPEAKER_06 1:24:40

Because we all have them, you know. Well, yeah, no, for sure. Uh, and I think honestly, this last year, it was probably it it's been a year and a couple months now, have been one of the biggest knockdowns of my life. Uh and and I think I think what made it even harder, and I'll I'll give some more detail on it for sure, it was where it came from. Uh it's one thing, you know, to kind of look at and say, oh man, somebody in the world did this to me. Right. Because that's what you expect people to do. You know, like uh you can't blame a blind man for not being able to see you, right? You can't be like, oh dude, like what's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:20

Uh but when uh when it's people that you expect for being a snake. Yeah, when you expect somebody to be uh different uh following Christ, a sheep, and then they they act in a way that doesn't seem to match up with that, and when that's directly uh uh impacting or hurtful, uh it's like uh it hurts in a whole different way. Oh yeah, but betrayal. Yeah, it's it's a it's a wound that that just feels different. Um and so yeah, like I guess uh to go into some of the detail of it and and any of this, like I'm I'm happy to talk about um especially because I see how God used it all. Okay. And so uh I I I was again in an organization that really in in the campus scene of it, there was like so much freedom. Uh and and really it was because it was it wasn't the focus wasn't on it. And so the stages weren't big, you know, and like it was just like, oh, you're over there working with those kids, you know, those kids on that campus, you know. And it was like again, I I found a great freedom in that space. It was like awesome. And and freedom to follow after God, to do what I felt like he was asked me to do and to lead things in a way that was vulnerable and all that stuff. Well, you know, we we we are growing into an increasingly offended society. And so even going back to that committed critic, uh not only do I think you should not be committed to something you're not critical of, I don't think you should be commit critical of something you're not you're not committed to. Right. And that's what we're getting more and more of is a ton of people that know exactly what they're against, they just have no idea what they're for. And they're really quick to tell you how you're wrong. Right, right. Uh and they want to like point out the faults, especially of every leader, um, no matter who it is. And and then we've got an increasingly litigious society that's overlapping, constantly offended. And now I've got a way to go with my offense. I'm just gonna sue.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:22

Right. Uh and I'm or persecute at Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:26

And so so within this organization, there was some real abuse that happened uh in in it, like throughout kind of a whole area in Texas, okay. Uh, that was connected back to one guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:41

Was it financial or no?

SPEAKER_06 1:27:43

It was it was some sexual abuse and it was like spiritual abuse uh that was all connected back to one guy that actually wasn't even in the organization, okay, but he was vouched for by some other leaders, okay. And and that was horrible, that was hideous. Um but the That the denomination responded to it is because there was millions of dollars of lawsuits that then were coming against them, they said, We're just gonna turn all this over to lawyers.

unknown 1:28:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:14

And and what the lawyers said is, well, if you're saying as a denomination, you've got stacks and stacks of millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars, and that we're here to protect those. Here's what you need to do to protect those. You need to get rid of everybody in this circle. Uh, and you need to make a firewall around this whole thing or a fire break. Right. And the way you need to do that is you need to burn a bunch of missionaries. Uh, and so a bunch of my very close friends, uh that I mean, I I I read a very close friend of mine, I read his dismissal letter. Okay. And it wasn't just he got fired, he got got excommunicated, he got dismissed as minister. Uh and which is supposed to be something that like you is a pattern of like you've really done some. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And all it, I mean, there wasn't one scripture quoted in his letter. There wasn't one sin cited in his letter. The only thing he was accused of was simple negligence. Which not even gross negligence, gross negligence is you knew something was happening and you covered it over, right? Right. This was you didn't know this was happening, but you probably could have done more to find out. That's simple negligence. Okay. Uh and and so because and and this guy was over like, I mean, like over like a lot of missionaries, like over 400 missionaries, uh, spread across the globe. He was over multiple regions. And so like he was he was trying to keep up with a lot. Uh and and so, but it was like, man, this happened under you underneath your watch. And I watched this happen. Every one of my authorities ended up losing losing their job in one way or another. Uh, and and everybody in surrounding that area. And and I thought it was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:16

I mean, actually, even in our bylaws, had a lot of them, I'm sure, like yourself, had given given their lives.

SPEAKER_06 1:30:22

Given their lives to it. Yeah. And it was their, it was their family's lives. It wasn't just it wasn't a job, it wasn't just income. Yeah, it was their lives. Right. And it was all their relationships. Uh, and and all of a sudden it was like, and they weren't even met with. There were there weren't even even any clergy that met with them through the process. It was all just lawyers. And so I I spoke up, Gabe, and I was like, I think this is wrong. And I told my authorities, I told all every authority, I was like, I think the way this is handling is being is wrong. I think it's wrong by God. Uh for I as far as motivation for something, okay. You want to talk about the two worst motivations for something? The love of money and the fear of men.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:11

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:12

I think that's the two, those two motivations will always result in evil.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_06 1:31:17

The love of money, or and really it's about the desire to control. That's what mammon is. That that word that's used there is mammon. It's the desire to control things. Now, money just happens to be part of the equation. Yeah, yeah. A big part of the equation of how do you control, right? So it's the desire to control people uh with money. Uh, and then secondly, the fear of men. Uh, either one of those things, you're gonna end up away from God. Right. Okay. What I saw was happening was there's decisions that are being made across all of this stuff that is about what do we need to do to protect the money? And then what do we need to do in fear of men, in fear of the lawyers and the litigation. Right. And and it was like, well, we're gonna make these decisions then. And I just I still believe it's wrong. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:08

Well, it's it's also in a somewhat of a bystander over here hearing that. I mean, the first thing that you think of when you hear of a uh scandal, and then you see people lose their job in the aftermath, you immediately say, Oh, they must have been involved.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:28

You know, and obviously they weren't. This was isolated, but how do they move on? You know, again, families, communities, places that they've put their life into, and and those relationships, the people that they have ministered to, you know, and the impact that that has moving out. You know, that that's one of the things that uh again, the responsibility we have as leaders and as Christian leaders, especially, is that, you know, watching your P's and Q's, you know, maybe everybody's watching you. They're watching you for guidance and they're watching you to slip up so they can blast it. Yeah, you know, that your enemies are. Um there's nothing more than they would desire to just eviscerate all of us, you know, and our ability to combat uh their ideology. And I see our institutions, our religious institutions, um being kind of a uh apex of that. Um, you know, we've seen it uh with the Catholic Church, for instance, and you know, how that has carried out. I know some amazing Catholic priests who suffer daily, who are dismissed by people daily or ridiculed by people daily for things that they had nothing to do with to do with. Yeah. And it's rippled out from the c Catholic troubles into all of Christianity. We see a little taste of it everywhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:11

Well, yeah, and then you've got the I mean, you've got some perpetrators that are doing awful things and they're doing them in the name of Christ, okay, which is like that literally taking the name of God in vain. Uh they're they're calling this a a Christian or a godly endeavor, and yet that they're utilizing it to abuse people. Okay, that's hideous. Yes. And and I don't want to make light of that in any way. That's hideous. Right. Uh, but then the response to that is well, then we're gonna protect uh and we're gonna protect the organization or like a corporation, I mean protect the assets, and that that is the is the thing, it's the corporate response. But aren't we supposed to be different? Yes, uh, as the church. And that's what I was saying. Like, if if if we want to live like the world, then let's just be in the world. But if we're supposed to be set apart, then our response has to be different. Okay. Right. So I spoke up about that. And then I and then I tried to follow even what Paul says. He says, even if your brother is caught in sin, what should you do? You should examine your own self so that you're also not caught unaware. And then you should look to restore them gently. Yeah. And so and so that's what I was doing. And I decided just because these people aren't a part of the organization doesn't mean that they're not so my friends. Right. And I'm gonna treat them like a friend. I'm gonna love them and I'm gonna include them into my life. And so uh last January I started a podcast, okay, in the Rising Tide Life Podcast. And and I'd started a coaching company the November before that. That was this thing of man, how do we take these kingdom principles and get them into the marketplace and into the family in a way that it it turns the tide of culture? Okay. Uh, and so I'd started this podcast. And um, and when I was like, man, who would I want to be a part of this? My friend Eli. I was like, man, I don't I don't know anybody, and this is still true today. Uh there's there's one guy that's now passed away, his name is Dick Schroeder, that I I watched live out Christianity in a way that was like, it just made it real to me every time I was around him. Okay. Other than Dick, Eli was was one of these other guys that was like, man, like he's actually tried to live this out. Uh and so I included him in the podcast. Oh wow. Uh, and and we we filmed four episodes. Okay, we released two of them. Uh, and and then I got called into a meeting. Uh and oh, by the organization. By the district. Yeah, by the the the organization. Wow. Uh and I sat down and and it was called casually. It was like, hey, we want to talk to you about this podcast. And so I walked in and the national director of the organization was there. He's like, I'm so sorry I'm here on invited, I'm unexpected. I'm sorry to surprise you with this. And we sat down, and the very first thing he said is, he said, you know, in light of in light of the podcast uh that you've put, and it it I didn't do it in the name of the organization. It was like my podcast. Yeah. Uh in light of your podcast and the fact that we have tens of millions of dollars of lawsuits against us, and this is seen as platforming a dismissed minister. And we simply cannot have a missionary of your influence and authority platforming a dismissed minister with all of these lawsuits against us. So you're immediately terminated from all of your positions. No, no explanation beyond that. And and I'm telling you, Gabe, like I know I was just losing my job, but there's a point there where it felt like I was losing my life. That was your identity. I was your purpose. I mean, I'd given my life to cultivated. Yeah, it wasn't like a it wasn't a way to make money. I wasn't trying to make money. Right. I I was trying to give everything I had to eternity.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:16

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:16

And it wasn't just me as my family. Like we were in it together. Uh, it was our lives. Right. And then and I walk out of that meeting, and before I even make it home to to Conway from Little Rock, which is 30 minutes, I'm getting calls from all over the nation. Uh, because the national directors left there and started calling people. I hadn't even told my wife. Wow. And I'm getting calls. Okay. So this when you talk about getting knocked down, okay, uh, it was like, God, I'm I've I've lost everything. Uh and and what I've realized through all of that, and and there's so much more to this story of like that that you know, whatever you want to talk about, we can talk about. But what I realized in that next two weeks that followed that is I actually not only can I not control the narrative, and God just told me, like, you want to control the narrative, but you can't control the narrative. You you I just need you to trust me. And I want to tell my God was like, I want to tell my story through this. Right. And and then also what I believe is you can't control what you go through, but you can't control how you go through it. Yeah, and that's where we got to is gay, we just got to the place where my wife, Kiki and I would just look at each other every day and be like, how do we go through this the right way? Because we can't control what we're going through and we can't control the narrative of it, but we can control how we go through this. Right. And that's what we're gonna do. And and so we just resolved ourselves to that. And and I can tell you, this last year, that's probably the hardest thing I've ever went through in my life. And yet this last year has probably been the best year of our lives. There you go. I'm telling you, like, God is like taking care of us in so many ways. I had a buddy that told me he's like, he's like, yeah, you got fired like a bullet out of a gun. Uh like that's what he said. He was like, that's what I've seen is like, and it really, I mean, there's so much of it that, and and even with it, like, please hear me. Like, even the men that were involved in those decisions, man, for one, I wouldn't want, I wouldn't want to be in their position.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:37

Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:38

And I don't even really fault them for the for the decision that they made. Uh, because God used it. And and I think that somehow they were trying to do the right thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:48

And maybe in the long play of this, they see how you rebounded and the influence and the well, and that's what I'm saying to me.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:57

He's like, he's like, he's like, if I'm honest, like I he's like, I he was like, this isn't a decision I wanted to make. And he's like, You know, you're the most apostolic leader I've probably ever been around. And so like I believe that God's gonna bless you. He's like, we just don't know what to do with you. You don't fit in any of our boxes. And and I was like, I I mean, I I was still tender at the moment, okay? Uh so but it was also encouraging. I was like, okay, God, then I'm just gonna trust you and that that you're actually trying to do something better. And so there's so much, I mean, there's so much more to the story, but that's as far as if you're asking the question of like when you get knocked down, right? How do you respond? I I I sat with my wife, and every day we would have we were just going through psalms together. And Kiki said to me, She's like, I've read the Psalms before, and I've always been like, David, why are you such a complainer? You know, and why are you where are you finding all these enemies? And she's like, now it's like I get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:52

You know, like everywhere.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:54

I get it. And but every day, okay, we would have an anthem that was this, it was a psalm that was like, well, God's already told us how to deal with this. Right. That's how we need to respond. And man, it got it brought us closer to each other, it brought our family together, it brought, it brought us closer to God, it got brought us closer to purpose. I remember told him telling my the hardest conversation was with my boys. Because no, no man wants to tell their kids that they lost their job. No, and nobody wants to tell them that they lost their life, okay, which is what I felt like I was saying. You know, it was like all your friendships, all every everything we've done, all this, man, it's like it's snatched away. Uh and but I remember telling my second son, he was 19 at the time, and uh he's six foot three, okay. Uh, and just but just thin, okay. Like my and and so he gets up and he just wraps his arms around me. He's like, he's like, Dad, I love you. Wow, I'm so proud of you. Uh he said, You've you've taught us our whole lives to do what's right, no matter what it costs us. Right. And he said, You did what you believe is right. Wow. And and he's like, I'm proud of you. And there's part of that, I needed to hear it from my son, yeah, you know, but more I need to hear it from my dad. Okay. Right. And I heard it from God at that point, Gabe. It was like you and I'm not saying everything I did was right, okay. Don't hear that wrong. I I know I made mistakes, absolutely. I can I can articulate them if you want me to. Okay. Uh, but what I was trying to do there with that podcast, and was standing up and speaking up and saying, I I think authority we've done wrong here. I was trying to do the right thing. And and it cost me. Right. Uh, but it was worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:54

Yeah. And you know, it uh our actions have sacrifices, and we don't always know what those are gonna be, you know, but um we just have to roll with what you feel here, yeah. And when that is emboldened with faith and emboldened with a supportive spouse, you know, your team. Yeah, while life knocks you down, you have the structure to stand back up. And adversity can destroy. Yeah. I mean, it can wipe it out. Yeah, you have an option, it can send you to the bottles and drugs, divorce. You name it, it's all out there to be had with the excuse of a bad thing happening in your life. It is ready for you. Yeah. But you can also harness adversity for greatness. And that's what you did. And if it hadn't been for faith, yeah, only by the grace of God. You're right. I mean only by the grace of God. You know, where where where would you be? I mean, because I see it happen on small levels and and great and large levels. So many people are and I was that way too, you know. So many people are looking for that excuse to fall off the wagon, whatever wagon you're riding. Yeah. To give up, to drop everything, to walk away from responsibilities, to whatever. And all you're doing is you're digging your hole deeper and deeper and deeper. You're kicking that can. Yeah. Down a long, dark road. Yeah. And you know, we're talking about masculinity and the traits of that, that fight. When you get punched in the mouth like that, or gut or blind side like you did. Who was it?

SPEAKER_06 1:45:54

Was it Ali that said that or something like that? Everybody knows who they are there until they get punched in the mouth or something like that. Who was it?

SPEAKER_00 1:46:01

Somebody have a plan, you know. Yeah, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. Tyson said that, I think. Right. Yeah, that's right. But it um, you know, that's where you harness who we are and who you are, and and know who you are, and know what your capacities are. And you get knocked down and you feel sorry for yourself a little bit, but then you're like, okay, God, here we go. Yeah, I'm ready. This is gonna be our fight. Let's see what we make out of it. And you know, the it struck me because as a father, you know, you and a son as well. My dad is uh still a big part of my life, you know, you look for affirmation from your father, yeah, your physical father. Um but as a father, there are times where you also look for affirmation from your son, especially as they get older. You know, and and when you have a reaction like you did with your son, man, how powerful is that? Yeah, you know, yeah uh to know that they're they're with you, yeah. That they are aware of what you have done and how you've lived your life and the example that you have set for them and you know how that all plays out in reality. Yeah. And for you to have that relationship with your child is is pretty pretty amazing and unique, unfortunately. It's a gift from God. Yeah, honestly. Um, you know, and that uh that's that's an amazing story of of recovery. So where are you at now? I mean, we we got the podcast going. That's exciting. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:47:48

So it, you know, at the start of the podcast, we we I I didn't release those those second two of those four initial episodes that I recorded with Eli just because like I I mean, if I'm honest with you, there's part of me that wanted to put both my middle fingers up and be like, I'm just gonna keep on doing this because I and I just felt like I was like, that is not that that's not pursuing peace. Right. Uh, and so you know, like I I think for two weeks, uh, I would say God really healed me. Uh, that there were two weeks there that were just a matter of like just our family with the Lord and and just God healing. And I remember uh I had a good buddy of mine that that was like, hey, I want to I want to come hang out with you next Wednesday. And so I was like, okay, I've got this board meeting that I gotta do uh early morning. We'll go out after that. And uh long story short, uh my wife had told me, she's like, I really think you need to talk to this guy that had been involved in my life uh earlier. God lines it up to where I'm I'm end up sitting in the in this guy's house with them, like miraculously. Uh, there's so much to the story. Um and and I'm sitting there talking with them, and I'm realizing that I I feel healed. And not only that, I feel free. Like uh like I feel like I've had a a ball and chain removed off my ankle. That there were things that I I've always believed and wanted to do and wanted to chase after. Felt held that that I felt held and a little bit held organizationally, right? But some of it was I was held in other people's expectations, and I was held by my own success. Okay, like there's part of my own success that had trapped me, of and I felt responsible for a lot of people, okay, like hundreds across the globe. And and that all felt noble to me, like it was noble in my heart, right? Uh, and and at that moment, I was just like, I'm I'm free. And not only am I and and even like so two and a half weeks in, I didn't just feel freedom that was from a ball and chain, so to speak, or a prison. I felt like a boy in a field. Okay. It was like so I can do anything. Anything I want to, and everything I've dreamed of. Right. And I can do it with God.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:27

And I can do the power. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:29

And I can just run.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:50:31

And so I I would say over this last year, Gabe, that's what I've been doing. I've just been running. Yeah. Uh, and I I started doing these men's resets, you know, that was like it's really focused on like let's try and just get like 20 to 35 men together in a in an honest conversation. Uh not a facade, not a put on your best, but like leave the pose behind. Uh, and then let's try to leave the accusation behind. Uh, because I think every man deals with three identities. There's there's who God says that you are, and there's the accusation. That's who who does Satan say that you are, who does he lie to you and and and try to tell you you're not. Right. And then there's the pose. Okay. That is either it's what you're using to cover up your insecurities or what you've attached your identity to on the basis of your successes. Right. Okay. That you're then trying to keep up that like front all the time. Right. And it's exhausting. Yes. Uh, and it's actually a prison. It's just it's a prison that looks beautiful from the outside. So other people are like, oh, that's awesome. What you got it all together. Right. And you're like, yeah, like you're trapped in it, right? Yes. And so I've just been, I feel free. Okay. And I have been free. So I so I wanted to lead other men into that. And not just into freedom of identity, but into freedom of purpose. Right. And and so, so last March with the very first men's reset. Uh, and the hope was like, man, let's do, let's just get, and so I think there were 31 men that were there. Uh, and we were up in Branson, and and God did so much there that the guys that were there were like, Man, can we do this where I'm from? Because I know men that need this too. And so, with God's help, I was like, Well, and so we committed to doing one in in Mississippi, one in in Florida, uh, one in Pennsylvania, one in Texas, and then another one back in Branson again. And so the fall had five regional of those, and then, and so then in in February, we did the very first rising tide marriage reset. Last summer we did a family reset in Cal in Colorado that was like, man, what what if you get to the spot? I don't know if you ever got there with your wife where you're like, you just look at each other and you're like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00 1:52:56

I think it happens weekly with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:59

What I was there a plan? And if if there was a plan, are we following the plan? Because like, what happened here? How do we have 17 practices in a week? Or or how is this our lives? Because you make all these little decisions. And the sum of them is something you did not expect, right? And then you look at each other and you're like, we need to do something different, right? And then literally the next thing you do is sleep.

SPEAKER_03 1:53:23

Right. Yeah. And then you wake up and you just do it again, right? Right.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:27

And so the what if with that is what if we could take time with our family and with other families that are at that same spot. They're like, actually, I want to do something different. I don't know what to do different. Or how to do it, or how to do it different.

SPEAKER_00 1:53:40

That's the that's the key thing. And so that's what those resets are focused on, Gabe. That's awesome. Well, it is very much needed. Uh, and that's honorable and amazing that you're doing that in the context that you're doing it. Um, you know, because those are real life things that we're struggling through. Yeah. And it takes sharing those experiences, being truthful and vulnerable and open, just like you were dealing with the kids at colleges, yeah, you know, uh the adults and professionals are in need as well. Yeah. And um, you know, it's an uh I see it kind of as an evolution because then they can take that back. No, absolutely their families, their kids, and and then it just it culminates. And uh that's awesome, man. That's awesome. But yeah, the the the what are we doing and why are we doing this is something and it's it sneaks up on you in a way, but then it's okay, how do we unwind this that we have created? Yeah, and that's the process that I still uh struggle with because you're not alone. Yeah, I mean, like you find yourself in so many different directions and so many people dependent on you. Yeah that ball and chain type thing, that obligation to all of these people, um, that if you step away, what happens? Yeah, the reality is maybe if you step away, they're free, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:55:16

Well, and this is the language that God's given me for this, and it's helped me at least, Gabe, is I'm I'm not looking I I don't want to be responsible for any more people. I I feel like that's something I did wrong. It was prideful. Now it's noble, right? But it was prideful. Uh and and there's so much that God has showed me, like, oh, I I these are my kids, I'll take care of them. And I'm like, oh yeah, I guess you can. Like you're powerful enough to do that. But what I what I'm looking for right now, what I'm finding, is people to be responsible with. Right. And I feel like God keeps on bringing together people that want to be responsible for God's kingdom, and that's from all different like areas, and it's like, man, what if we could partner together like that? In fact, like this is why I'm here. Okay. Uh I didn't know you before today, right? But I I I've heard about you through Travis, and I'm like, man, maybe that's somebody I can be responsible with.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:18

And likewise, and I love the way you put that responsible with. That's a whole different perspective. Yeah. Um, that's a partnership. Yeah. That's not everything on your back. It allows you a lot more freedom and sharing the responsibility, you know, amongst everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:37

Well, Matt, been an amazing discussion. And I've enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. Uh, you know, I know we've got another one coming up. Hopefully, tune in to that one, cover some different topics and uh expand on some of the ones that we've talked about already. And uh, man, looking forward to round two. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.