SPEAKER_01 0:00

Some men are given a path. Others have to cut one out of nothing. Today's guest is the second kind. He's a self-made man, a risk taker, a father, a husband, a Christian, and a friend. But more than that, he's someone I respect because I know what it takes to actually make it on your own. The grit, the pressure, the sleepless nights where everything is on the line, the decisions where there is no safety net and no one else to blame. Joe has persevered. He's built something from nothing, not with perfect conditions, but with instinct sacrifice and resilience that most people never have to develop. The ability to take a hit, stand back up, and keep moving forward when it would be easier to walk away. And when you live in that space long enough, you start to realize something else carries you through it. Faith. Not just as a belief, but as something you lean on when the numbers don't make sense, when the outcome is uncertain, when you're one decision away from losing everything you've built. And that's what this conversation is about. What does it really take to make it on your own without a lifeline? Where do you even begin? And more importantly, where does it end? What is essential and what isn't? How do you balance building a life with actually living one? And how do you know when you've gone too far on one side before it costs you something you can't get back? Because behind every man like this, there's another story. The role of a partner and a family, not just as support, but as a canary in the coal mine. The strength that comes from someone who understands the mission, who sees the pressure, and helps carry it with you. And the crushing weight you feel when that support isn't there. This isn't just about success. It's about resilience. It's about faith. It's about sacrifice, and it's about purpose. Today I'm joined by Joe France. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for coming on and joining us. Uh, this is gonna be a good discussion, uh, one that I've looked forward to ever since we thought about having the podcast, because you are someone that when I'm feeling sorry for myself about all I've got you know going on, I think about well, there's always Joe. Yeah, Joe's got a little bit more. Um so let's just begin uh by talking about you, you know. Um who's Joe France? You know, uh you started kind of like some of us, you know, with not a whole lot of help, not a whole lot of knowledge, but some grit and determination. Just talk about where you started from.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Yeah, man. You know, it it's uh it's easy to look from outside in and you know, people do it every day and see what you got or what you've accumulated. And um, you know, it really starts back at where you you know, the way you're raised. Um that's a lot of it. Uh I was raised in a I was raised in church. Dad was a music minister and went to church um every every time the doors were open. And um, so so I do believe in God fully. Um and you know, life takes you down these roads where you um you know, I was a little older. I moved out a little early and uh when I was 16. And um like we've discussed before, uh I was 16 and a half, moved out, right, and uh tried to figure out how I was gonna make that 225 a month payment on that trailer that I moved into. So, you know, I think it starts there and then you gotta get tough at that point because you gotta learn. And um certainly a lot of lessons that uh could have been learned easier, right? Uh you gotta go through some hard ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

So well, I mean, you know, starting out that early as a kid, you know, you've got your reasons. They're not always the right reasons because you don't have life's experience to guide you. Yeah. It's just kind of what you feel at that moment, but it does set you up to start developing that grit, you know, for that does work its way into the rest of your life. So, you know, you got out on your own early, you got your trailer, you're all set up. You were a man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

You thought Yeah, I was uh I thought I was all way, you know, all the way there. So uh and looking back, those were pretty simple, great times. Yeah, you know. Um of course, you know, went to work immediately. And uh where'd you start working? So I worked at a motorcycle shop in Little Rock. It was one of my first before that I, you know, uh I did the papers, mowed yards, yeah, and I worked at a little barbecue joint on Chico Road in Little Rock for a while. But then I went to um I went to work for a uh motorcycle shop in Little Rock for a couple of years and uh spent most of my time working, you know.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah. So, you know, yeah, through those periods of time you start gaining some age, gaining some experience. Yeah, you know, um was there a point where you were like, hey, okay, I'm ready to do something different. I mean, what what happened to springboard you from this hourly just work mentality to to the bigger picture thing?

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, I did that for a little while, and then um I actually went to work framing houses with for my uncle in the building business. My all my family's in construction and uh you know, custom builders and things. So, you know, wanted to learn a new trade, got out, learned how to frame houses for a couple years. Two and a half years I worked for my uncle doing that, and very hard work, but uh uh nice to learn a new trade and learn how to do things. And I think that's kind of what started my path where I wanted to go was kind of real estate development. Yeah. So, you know, I learned how to build a house and then uh did that for a couple years, and um I actually moved to Jonesboro when I was about um just two and a half years after that, and my mother had a wall covering business. So I actually learned how to install wallpaper and do wall coverings on the inside of houses. Right. And I did that for five years total.

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Wow, I didn't realize you were in that. I remember you mentioning that, you know. But it's funny how all these little steps, all these little things are working together to build you into, you know, kind of what you became. So, you know, you got uh I know you went into the banking and bonds as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Yeah, that's a long process. See, I did that. I was I did that for five years. It was the only thing I could do, make a thousand dollars a week when I was 20-something years old and felt like I was I was doing pretty well there.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yeah. Now, did you start um you know with your first project before that or was that after that?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

No, it was after that. I never got into I always wanted to get into real estate, but I didn't really know, you know, I just didn't get there. Yeah, still in my young 20s, so I didn't I didn't really know how to make the jump or whatnot in the time. Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Well, let's talk about that first project. Everybody's gotta have one, you know. Their first time to really step outside the comfort zone, yeah, take a risk, you know. What was yours?

SPEAKER_00 7:55

So I guess my very first project was um I moved from Jonesboro to Memphis, so I made another big leap, was a couple hours away. And um I got my real estate license and um did all the homework to do all that, got my real estate license and started getting into real estate. And then and it wasn't until then I really dove off into rehabs and doing houses and stuff. So my very first deal, um, funny enough, was a few houses down from mine in Memphis, and I had my eye on it, and some things happened, and I got it, and we um there was a lady moving out, and I gave her a thousand dollar option to buy her house from her. She owed back taxes, and that was the first deal I did. And uh about 90 days later I made about $32,000, and uh I was like, I think I know what I'm gonna do the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

It was set because it was fun. Yeah, you know, so and then after that you took that 32 and you went out and bought a sports car.

SPEAKER_00 9:04

No, no, no. I was writing more contracts for houses, you know. I was walking my neighborhood looking for more houses. Right. And I would literally get on my bicycle and ride the neighborhood every street and figure out which houses were which because we had about a two square mile neighborhood I lived in. So you were already starting to build your scale. Yep. Yeah. Um and you got to get lucky and pay attention. And and um, you know, so I was I was writing contracts and I never understood that I'd actually have to have the money to buy these places. Right. So I would write contract over contract over contract. Then I learned how to flip contracts. Like I can't get it done, but I call somebody and they want it, and I make five, seven, ten thousand dollars on a deal flipping a contract. So when I couldn't when I couldn't get them done, I would do them away and make some money.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Right. And that's I think that's the the dynamics that you have to have. I mean, the goal is to climb that ladder. It may be a small step, yeah, or it may be a big step, but as long as you're making those steps, you know, you're getting somewhere. Yeah. That was something my grandfather was a dev developer as well, you know, uh interesting developer, but he used that same methodology, never had a whole lot of money starting out, especially, but it was those options. It was that, you know, give me some time and I can I can make it work. And uh he did did that and ended up you know making a good living for him, my grandmother in doing so. But uh he did a lot of rural, you know, developments uh going that way.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

But um, well, you know, we we we look at how you kind of start scaling and you're young and you're getting started, you're having some success, you know, was uh there a big we were we were going pretty good in uh early 2000s, um doing well, just buying more and more houses, keeping some for rent, flipping some, a good mix of that. And uh I just got in this one area in midtown Memphis and I just stayed close and kept kept buying and building and became known as the guy that's gonna buy those houses.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

And then um 08 come about when there the great reset in real estate when uh when um you know we had the mortgage market blow up and um overnight banks started stopped loaning money, basically. So um, you know, not a good time to have houses on the market when when you lose 30 to 40 percent overnight, pretty much. So how'd you survive that? So um uh, you know, it took I had about seven or eight houses on the market at that particular time. I just do one deal and get it done, go to the next one, and um didn't and have to end up filing bankruptcy like everybody else, but made my way out of it. Right. And one of the steps that that I learned then was you know, I'm trying to sell, but I need to be start by to buy at the same time too, because you can't just sell it all for peanuts, so you gotta find another good deal. And uh I bought a commercial piece on Union Avenue and flipped it like coming out of those that you know that couple years and made a good amount of money, good amount of money on it. Right. And it kind of floated the boat to average it. Right. Yeah. Just to average it. And then um and I had made a lot of friends too. I had friends that helped me do deals. And um, so I had a lot of I made support over the years from what I did.

SPEAKER_01 12:44

Right. Well, you know, the people that are wanting to get started, kind of like us, didn't really have a lot to get us started. You know, what is your advice to them? I mean, if you if the they're a younger guy in his 20s or girl and and they're like, hey, you know, I I want to be my own person. I want to want to do it myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

I think if it's in real estate, do your homework and go buy something if you need to start, if you want to start in that. But it's just you know, it's just get up and do something, basically. Right. Uh I would write contracts on property, and you know, um, if I never started writing contracts, I never would have had property. Yeah. So I learned how to write a contract. I went to real estate school, learned how to write a contract.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And when you're talking about writing a contract, just for people who aren't familiar with that term, what exactly are you you talking about?

SPEAKER_00 13:37

Yeah, I mean, just printing a printing a contract off, you know, writing it up, presenting somebody with with a with that purchase contract. Or it's just you and that individual. Yeah, getting it under, you know, getting getting it under contract. And um I I learned a lot from that because you know, if you run out of time, you might be able to extend a contract. If you do this, you know, there's a lot of ways you can work through your first deal. So and then people want to help you. There's people that want to help if they see that you're trying to do something.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

Yeah.

unknown 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

So go find you somebody that'll maybe try to help you.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Especially with youth, and that's something I tell my boys, you know, while I'm there to help guide them as much as I can, you know, the the value of wisdom and mentorship of people who have already been there is is there. And at a certain point in your life, I think you and I are kind of at the same place. You want to start giving back. You want to start seeing people who have the capacity, they have the drive, they have the will. You want to see them succeed. Yeah. You know, and it it it it gets, you know, into that um that mindset of giving something back, you know. And building that network as well. Yeah, you know, of people who you help them, they help you. We all work together in that. But uh, you know, one of the things that I look back on, Kara and I, you know, revisit all the time is, you know, the risk that we thought we were taking then versus what we take now on a daily basis, you know. How did that look for you or does look for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Um I think, you know, and what I do for a living, it's it takes you forever to get to the big leagues. You might say the bigger leagues anyway. And uh once you get there, it's it's more complicated, it takes more time. Um, but it's rewarding at the same time. You know, you look back and you bought that first house, now you're buying a 200-unit apartment complex. Right. You know, you're like, why didn't I just start with 200-unit apartment complex? Well, you gotta prove yourself, you know, and you gotta make sure you can do it, right? So nobody's gonna give you the money unless they know you can do it. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

That's one of the things that, you know, I look at uh as well as, yeah, gosh, if I had just known this. Well, that's part of the journey. You know, you get out over your skis too soon, and yeah, you're gonna fall, and you're gonna fall hard. And it's it's funny how things are just kind of laid before you progressively. Yeah. It doesn't always, I mean, you're gonna have your setbacks, yeah, but you're gonna learn from them. Yeah. Just keep keep getting back up. So, you know, I know what my setbacks have been. I mean, were there any points early on where you were like, man, this is too much.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

In 08, that was a big that was a big thing, you know, just liquidating and pretty much getting to zero. You know, I'm I had made myself a net worth and I'd done some things and to take that exactly flat hurt after working for five or six years to get there. Right. So that that hurt, but I but it it just prepared me for the next wave of of life. So yeah, I mean you mentioned, you know, so I after that I moved back to uh Little Rock and um went to work for an investment firm selling bonds. Right that was another pretty hard thing I had to accomplish, you know, getting out of school early. Now I gotta go learn all this financial information in one month. Right. And take a bond test and get it passed and then and then go to work. You know, so the pressure was high, now it's even stacked double. Right. You know, a small pound amount of time, but I learned a lot uh working in the bond business. Yeah. And uh debt.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah, and I'm sure that played a lot into working these bigger deals as well, understanding the back side of of how, you know, these things work and what the banks are needing to see, and you know, the whole nine yards. A lot of people don't understand that. I'm still learning a lot of it, you know, kind of the nuances of of the deals. And um, you know, it's definitely some valuable, valuable information on that.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

One thing it helped me do was about timing, about what the markets were looking like and when to buy, when to sell, and things like that. So it that that really helped me in in that aspect.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

And then uh, you know, here we pushed forward. Right. You know, I know with me, for instance, you know, we could have moved anywhere in the world, actually, you know, with my medical profession, and uh actually looked at it and looked uh down into Central America for quite a while and uh considered that. Uh, but we came back to Arkansas and we within Arkansas we came to Hot Springs and we put it everything on the line, put everything we had into Hot Springs. And I know you've kind of done the same. So why Hot Springs?

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Um part of it was was a little bit of fake. Um my uncle used to bring me to Hot Springs when uh he was part of uh he owned a funeral home. And they would have their meetings here every year for their board meetings at selected downtown.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

And um he would bring me and said, Hey Joe, let's go play golf for three days. So he would bring me here back when I was 20 years old. And we'd play golf at Glenwood, Belvedere and High Springs Country Club. And um, and then go to the meetings at the Arlington. Right. And we would stay at the Arlington and we talk about projects and things we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:30

Um a lot of the reason I bought the park hotel was because of my memories of being here 20, you know, 30 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Right. And that's, you know, that's one of the things that uh, you know, uh drew me as well. You know, it's what Hot Springs has to offer. It's that enjoyment that I had as a kid, especially on the lakes. I mean, we were divers, spear fishing, had the clear water lakes, you know, had the history of the downtown, all the, you know, the 1920s and the gangsters and the you know, bathhouses, and and it's just it was kind of a relatively unknown outside of this region, a little jewel here, you know, that that we had. And uh, you know, the and the golfing. Golfing wasn't a big thing for me, but I know that we've got some amazing golfing and the trails and the national parks and the mountains and you know, all of those things. And and that was a big part, you know, you hit on it, and that r reminded me, you know, a big draw for me was just all those experiences that we had as a kid and wanting my children to experience that as well. And what better way than to live and invest and make it your own?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Absolutely. And you know, I'm I'm I'm around 52, so I you know we've done a few things and we were looking for a place to either get out in the country or get away from Little Rock. Right. So, you know, Little Rock's getting increasingly worse. And um so we decided to to come on down to Hot Springs, but a lot of that was based on my early experiences in Hot Springs and my good experiences. We would stay at the Alcapone Suite every time we came. Right. And then uh I used to run the promenade across from the park hotel when I was 20. Oh, really? Okay. And every time we'd come, I would run it. You know, run the mountain. I'd come back down and see that hotel, I'm going, man, that's pretty. Yeah. Beautiful architecture. Fast forward 30 years. I'm looking at it again, and somebody says it's for sale, and I'm like, oh boy, okay.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

That's a sign.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

It's a big sign. Yeah. Uh so you know, we came down and we started investing. We did um I built Vista Point, which was a 30 uh lot subdivision on the lake. Um, and there multi, you know, there's a couple million dollar homes in there. Right. So it's that's good for the city. Um And we built Hot Springs Lodge and Resort, me and a partner did, which that was a real upscale development for um more Branson-based type development, which I think we need in Hot Springs, to be able to have some to draw people, to draw the Dallas people and uh the other people that are you know four or five hours away that would consider hey, they got some nice places to stay. So you know, we talk about projects and um so we've done those along with a quite a few lake houses and other things.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Right. And the big one, you know, I know you've got a couple of big ones. The park hotel, like you mentioned, that was the one that, you know, I was like, wow, this is a big one.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

It's a big one, it's uncomfortable. Right. It's uh it's a lot. Yeah, we had to we had to do a lot of work on that building. Yeah. And we're still working on it. And um how many years in now? Uh well, you know, the first year I bought it, kind of bootstrapped the first year. So we um we were just cleaning up a lot. And you remember how had another motel in the park a lot. Right. Like I mean, there's so much you gotta do just to get to where you're starting off even. Like if you're building a new one, it's pretty easy. If you're going back to an old one, it's it's pretty difficult. Yeah. So um um it's gonna be a it's gonna be a four-star Marriott tribute hotel, which we pricked it, we picked that brand because it uh kind of it throws back to the old style and uh time frames a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah, I love how y'all have preserved the architecture of it. I mean, that's one of the things that I really enjoy about Hot Springs is that history. And the history is told through the architecture. So you get that art deco styling that you just have lost in a lot of cities. And a lot of cities that still have it are cities you wouldn't even want to go to now. You know, yeah. And that's the other thing is you you know, you get such a diversity here, everything from Victorian era to Art Deco to you know, more modern, and you get to see all of that here. But that's gonna be an amazing uh place when you get it done. But I mean, you've you've tackled that, you got the uh even you know, old schools, you know, that have yeah, bought the old junior high, and we're we're making that into um we're gonna have some commercial on the olive street side, make it into mixed use.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Right. Uh we're putting pickleball courts inside, a couple pickleball courts. And an event space inside with that, nobody really knows that's what we're doing, but yeah, it's coming. We're gonna have some now you know. We're gonna have some special things on the inside of that building from time to time.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

And that's something I I didn't even know that. And that's amazing because that is something that gets brought up to me repeatedly. Man, if we just had an event space here in town. Yeah. Um, I know we've got the stuff at Oakland, which we didn't mention that. Oaklawn's kind of the the big bear here, you know, the the racetrack and the history there from late 1800s and you know, the casinos. So, you know, Hot Springs uh has so much potential. Um, you know, I I remember when Kara and I were considering where we were gonna land, you know, and I told her, I was like, you know, if we could improve the airport, yeah, you know, if we get Highway 70 improved, which it did, you know, the infrastructure, you know, there's no limits to this place because you look at what they did with Vegas, yeah, you know, it's in the middle of the desert. It didn't have anything but sand around it and a reservoir that they created, you know. Look at all that hot springs has. And, you know, while obviously there's things that can be done in the city government to improve our capacity to develop and grow, uh, it's pretty, considering things, you know, it's pretty conductive to that. I mean, we're not challenged with the degree of regulation and oversight that, for instance, uh, you know, some of the bigger cities are. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Which is important. You know, the more regulation you got, the less people are gonna want to be investing um in a certain area. I know people that dodge certain areas because of those those regulations. Um but, you know, we're we're we're coming about. We recently bought the the uh Bell Hot Springs. Right, right. And uh working on it to restore it. Right. Uh which is and you know, I I I laugh about it because I actually bought the boat before I knew anything about where it was supposed to be and all these things. I kind of just bought it out off the cuff and uh and then found out it had to be on that island that was for sale, right? You know, so I ended up having to buy that whole thing too. Right. One thing led to another. Just to keep the bell.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Right. And for people that don't know what the bell is, the bell is an iconic party boat.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

You know, how many people does it uh can now it's 150 people can get on that river boat.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

So it's an old river boat that they brought and and launched it in our our local lake. And I remember it as a kid. The bell was just it, that was the thing. You'd always see it, and they'd have dinner cruises on it, and it looks like an old paddle wheel. And I just it's something that everyone uh really had fond memories of, and uh, and it had fallen on hard times and and even harder mechanicals. And you know, similar to kind of what we did with the restaurant, you know, with Cajun Boilers being an iconic restaurant that had fallen on hard times, you know, we couldn't have done that. We couldn't have even thought about taking on what a lot of people would consider a passion project, a risky project, had we not had success in other areas, in other kind of the meat and potatoes of business, you know, is um while we obviously would love for it to to blossom and and make tons of money, you know, we'd take on some of these because of our experience with them. You know, Cajun Bowlers was one, it was my favorite restaurant as a kid. Yeah. You know, when when we we behaved, you know, at the lake and we were camping out, and my dad wanted to spend the extra money, he'd drag us little heathens in, and that would be where we would eat. So I had these fond memories of it, and you know, we wanted as a family to to bring it back, you know, part of our family's heritage as well, beyond just uh the restaurant that I enjoyed, you know, it harkens back to South Louisiana and my wife's family and my boys, and um, so it it aligned, but it was an impossibility because of the capital risk uh had we not had success at the marina and some of these other businesses where the city really has a big play in and our ability to uh bring that investment in, to take that chance and in order to give back. And you know, I see the Bell is a project that, you know, is definitely aligned with with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Which it's it's uh, you know, people are like, Are you crazy for trying to fix that boat? And I'm like, we've been fixing old houses for 25 years, right? It's no different. It's it's the same, it's kind of the same thing except it's floating, you know. Uh so it's all the same processes. It's or some of the same processes, but I think it's important to get that thing running again. And um working on that now and trying to find a better home for it right now is what we're trying to do. Right. That that where it is on seven south with the value of that land right there, it's just not a good fit. So we're trying to find a new home for it. Right. Right now on the lake.

SPEAKER_01 30:18

So Well, you were mentioning you're saving a story for me about a project uh that you had mentioned earlier. So what what's the story on that one? You know, we got 70 we're working on, right.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But I mean, that's a commercial development. Ain't too much special about that. But you know, the special ones we got is uh, and I maybe I forgot about so the junior high park hotel, the bell, and uh, of course we did the national when he spoke speak about that. Right. Uh revitalized the national, put a pool behind it. Um but um and then the angler motel forgot about it too. Yep. I just keep adding up.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

There's a view out there, isn't it? Right. And that was another, you know, kind of iconic uh little little place. I mean, growing up passing the angler, you know, uh constantly, you know, staying at the angler. We we stayed there. If there a storm blew up and we were camping on the island, and you know, that would be the one of the rooms my dad would come in and grab, and we'd all pile into a room and and be safe for the night. And you know, come back to wet tents and sleeping back. You know, we'd get out of it for that night. But yeah, y'all have done a beautiful job on that that place.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

We decided to buy it and redo it completely. And I made it into a condo hotel, basically is what it is. It's we're selling some of them to retire the main part of the debt. Then we're gonna keep some of them and we're gonna manage the whole thing at the angler. So um, you know, that's that's uh um that was a fun project. And um much needed, another place that you could have just drove by and it could have gone away. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

It was well on its way. I mean, it it I hadn't seen that pool filled up in years, you know, and y'all completely redid that. That's nice now. Very nice, very nice. Well, are there, you know, in all these projects, you know, there's things that you uncover and kind of uh directions that you didn't expect to go. I mean, are there anything that kind of stand out at the park or ways that you things you assumed and then you came in and you found something out?

SPEAKER_00 32:29

And yeah, like the park hotel, we had to I didn't ever think I was gonna have to take the interior walls out. But I had to dismantle the whole thing and rebuild metal frame the whole inside of that building. Wow. Which we did and we're we've done it um because I wanted to keep as much nostalgia as I could, you know, uh, but meeting a four-star level hotel, you gotta do away with a lot of that stuff. So it's uh it's a fine line. It was a lot different back then. Yeah. Yeah. So to get to their standards to be a four or four-star hotel, um, a lot of the things that I, you know, or a few of the things that I wanted to really keep I couldn't. Right. Just because of uh fire light and safety and things like that. Yeah. They didn't care much about that back then. Yeah, they I mean, you know, they didn't. And uh so but we're it's it's coming along nicely.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah, it's coming along nice. I know it's it's definitely the there's a lot of people anticipating the opening of that. Because uh just like you had as a younger kid, you know, seeing the park, you know, everybody in this community is has watched the park and and seen it, and I'm sure had dreams of their own of someone or themselves kind of revitalizing it and seeing what it can be, you know, restaurant and you know, whatever it ends up, you know, adding to it. But it's definitely needed and it's part of the history, you know, of this town. You know, we've talked about why we're here, you know, why did we out of everywhere you could go uh we decide to come to Hot Springs? I think we share a similar, you know, reasoning for that. Yeah. You know, what do you see the future here?

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Um You know, Hot Springs, I see good growth here because it's a 10-month out-of-the-year place. You know, as far as tourism, you get a lot of places that are six months.

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

So along with all this tourism, there's a lot of new business that comes. And they go, hey, you know what? We l we like it here. We're gonna come back, we're gonna open a business here. Right. So if you can get people here and they actually like it, they go, wow, this is like May Mayberry Mayberry on the stero steroids, basically. You know what I'm saying? Um I think you can get people to come back. I think we need more amenities in this town instead of uh developments that don't have amenities. Right. We need to get more libraries in where we bring you know, kids got things to do on things to do. Right. And uh we've got some of that, but I think we could work on that big time with um the amount of room we have and the cost of cost basis of building here. Right. A little cheaper in other places. So you know, amenities is what we need here for all these, you know, we're building new hotels like Hotel Hot Springs was fixed up. Bob Beaumar did that. And you know, they're building a new Hampton downtown. Right. And they got they gotta have something to do. Yeah, we got the park hotel getting done. Um they're redoing the Arlington and Parts doing um the uh medical arts.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

There's a lot of rooms getting ready here and a lot of short-term rooms.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

Yeah. And that's been one of the uh challenges, you know, being that hot springs has always been seasonal to some degree. Luckily, now that seasonality is expanded longer. You know, when I was a kid, it was it was a lot shorter, you know, uh season. Now it's it's almost all year round. I mean, you know, we're like you said, 10 months um, and um, but you know, through the marina and now with the restaurant, we get lots of people from out of the state, which is great. And they come in and in conversation, they're like, okay, well, we've done this, we've done that, we've done this. Well, you know, what else can we do? Yeah, because they're looking for entertainment. And and Hot Springs has a lot, but we need more. And I think that as we gain more, those amenities, depending on what they are, that extends our seasonality. Maybe we eventually don't become a seasonal place. I mean, we've got Garvin Gardens now as well, with the Christmas extravaganza they put on. I mean, that's turned into an amazing draw in kind of our off-season. Yeah. Um, but you know, a lot of this, again, we've hit on it several times. A lot of it lies with our local government. You know, and it's hard, I know it's hard to narrow it down, but if there was one thing that you could say, hey, Studio Hot Springs, or let's just use it in general, um, over the nation, it starts local. What is one thing that you think that a city government could enact that would really put development and open it up, you know, and uh encourage people like you, like me, to come in and invest. You know, come in and we're gonna work with you to make this place better. Yeah. Um, you know, is there anything that stands out?

SPEAKER_00 38:02

I think there could be a committee between city government and developers. Because they don't usually work very well together. Right, right. So maybe some kind of committee, small committee that was like welcome people to town when they're when they're getting ready to make large developments or recognizing hey, those people over there, they're gonna invest to our community. Um you know, I appreciate what Oclan's done. They've done tremendous things for for for hot springs. But it's there's a lot of money around Oclan.

unknown 38:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Like Oclon's one piece of the puzzle, probably the largest piece, but there's a lot out here around.

SPEAKER_01 38:45

If uh and they kind of, you know, I think you and I are those little pieces out there. And sometimes you feel like you're not appreciated, like you kick to the side. Yeah, you know, and I've know other uh business owners and uh, you know, people who have invested a lot in this town, and that's we respect and appreciate the big big guys, but um, you know, we also don't want to feel like we're having to fight every day up here. Every corner. Every corner. Yeah. And I love that idea of a committee because just like in life, just like in business, we've got our certain rules that we try to follow. But there are times for the overall benefit of things that things can be, you know, massaged a little bit. You know, they don't have to be black and white rock solid. It may not make sense to do that on this project. Why you will have to do it on that one. This one sits on a you know, hot spring feeding creek or whatever. You know, yeah, we understand there's some uh environmental things that maybe we need to keep in in place here because we can't disturb that, but maybe that doesn't apply to a you know a storm drain over over here on uh on another corner. Yeah. And, you know, so having that uh committee with some background in development or in understanding what this is and have the the power to to make some of these alterations or changes, you know, would be really I mean that that would be something I could think someone you could talk to that don't have a hat on that says city.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

Right. That says, hey, we need to talk to them. Let me get you with them, and yeah, let's talk to them about that. And somebody knows the inside and knows the outside a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

And discuss being discussing potential without repercussions.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:38

That's the other thing. You know, there's a lot of people that are afraid to even open their mouth, right? You know, because they don't want to say the wrong thing, and then all of a sudden you're on the radar and you're you know, you're a a troublemaker or whatever. But um, you know, it's uh I just think that there's so much opportunity here. And there we're starting to be, you know, we're having people from California, a lot of people out of Texas coming here, you know, more so than I've ever witnessed um in anywhere in Arkansas other than northwest Arkansas. Um and I think it's really time to to see what we can create.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

The other thing is think about this. People don't think about this a lot, but being from you know, Benton and Hot Springs are 27 miles away. Right. And Benton's been growing like a weed forever. Um, so like we're developing on 70. Right. Um just a natural progression from getting to grow west, right? Yeah. So, you know, um I think we're gonna even if it ain't in the city of Hot Springs, it could be around the city of Hot Springs for people that are coming to Hot Springs on the weekend or during the week for dinner or whatever. Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

So the more we uh Absolutely, because we've got to have the population to dry it, it's not just all the transient population. You know, our local population is really what keeps the doors open on a lot of these restaurants, especially. I mean, that's what we face. You know, when we're in our tourist season, you know, it's it's rocking and rolling.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

And if you live here, you can't eat on Tuesday or Wednesday night.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. You eat at the house.

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Exactly. Exactly. And then everything opens up.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Yeah, yeah. But uh, so what y'all are doing, that vision, you know, and I and that's a key component of developing smartly, and that is you know, looking at trends, you know, and and looking down that road, you know, literally for you, looking down the road, how these different maybe it's not all hot springs, maybe, you know, like you said, Benton, how it's continuing to grow and where is it growing? What's happening? What are the infrastructure changes that are occurring? Where's this population wanting to to settle and and being ahead of that game a a little bit, looking forward, you know. So y'all definitely uh I think it's brilliant what you're doing, you know, uh in between Benton and Hot Springs.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

I think it's natural progression west from central, yeah. Like happened on Highway 10. I think that's the next Highway 10. Right. Always say it every day. I said, This is the new Highway 10.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Yeah. And so we're um you know, we're looking at amenities drive a lot. You know, people want to have places to eat, places to shop, things to do, uh, both our local population and our visitors. Um the other thing that, you know, I see I know for us when our kids were younger, it's schools. That's another reason we moved here from where we were before, which was down southeast Arkansas, is the school system was just horrible. Yeah. You know, and and this the school system here was well not perfect, it obviously was a lot better. And I think that that is a core driver and you know, for your um your fixed population. Your residence here.

SPEAKER_00 44:02

I agree with that. Yeah, they're the the schools, you know, all at school they're rocked so I know what bad schools are like. Right.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

So and how you suffer from it. Yeah. Yeah. My community suffers.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

It might it might inspire you to do better too. Oh yeah. It definitely uh you don't get killed in the meanwhile.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Yeah. It uh it pushes you on to bigger things. That's for sure. You know, you know your future's not there. So um you you roll it up and and roll out. But um, you know, and that kind of it completes the loop because schools obviously are dependent on property taxes. Yeah. And the way property taxes increase is through development. Yeah. And increasing the values of of these homes. So, you know, developing the things you're doing, uh, you know, business, the things that we're trying to do, and many, many others. We're obviously not the only ones, are such a heartbeat and so critical to a community's growth, especially a community like Hot Springs that has so much potential. Um, you know, that you know, I'll just say it. We need help. We need to be fostered, you know, we need support and understanding through uh the agencies and the government that regulates us. Yeah. And it shouldn't be a fight. We're all here for the same reason. And we all complete the circle, you know. So hopefully the future is is bright and all those we have the ability to have some sensibility, you know, in our government. We're still small, we're still local, and um hopefully people will understand, you know, as we kind of continue along this this venture and and exploring the possibilities of our little place here. Yeah, you know, they'll come around to it and see the big picture there.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Yeah, I like where uh Hot Springs is headed. It's uh like I say, I I think it grows very well over the next 10, 15 years. Yeah. And um, you know, you you you gotta enjoy this place. I mean, we got we got horse racing, we got lakes, we got mountains, bike trails, and uh and the traffic ain't that bad.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

No, it's not. We complain when we have to sit in in traffic for anything over about 30 seconds. I don't even like going to Little Rock anymore, to tell you the truth. Exactly. Well, we got definitely have a lot of things going here, and I'm I'm excited about the future for all of us. And uh, you know, hopefully uh the rest of the nation will see it as well. So absolutely. So well, you know, where do you see most people fail? You know, that are getting out on their own, you know, they're um they've got a dream, they got the dream part, um, and they've seen a Joe France work work through it, but they don't make it. Where do you see that?

SPEAKER_00 47:07

I would say getting the wrong partner could be a big deal. Could could put you in trouble pretty quick. Uh I've I've only had a few over the years, and it's always hard. It's always hard. Uh so I would be I would be safe on that aspect and and uh just make sure you know you're done with you ever do a partner deal or something like that, because they could put you in the weeds pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

Right. Yeah, one of the things that I see with some of the guys that um uh that I've you know kind of tried to talk through their first step out is you know, it's okay to have the dream. That's what kind of keeps you keeps you going. But understand the long game in it. Understand the steps that it takes. You know, opportunity might come down the pipe that you're not ready for. You don't have the experience, you haven't gained it, you don't have the wisdom to handle it. Yeah. And you know, you you aim big, you fail big, right? You know, and um you know, so there is something to be said about this gradual progression, you know, that you work through, especially young, you know. Uh it's a little different when you've got some age under you and you've seen the world develop and you know who you are and you know where where your capacities and where your weaknesses are. Yeah. You know, but um, you know, that's one of the the things that I say and definitely the partnership. Um, you know, it's uh it is a everything's rosy in the beginning. Yeah. You know, and that's why we fall back on family, you know, so much. Um it's very close family. That's how we operate our businesses. And even in that, you know, it it's a it's a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:55

Uh because you don't always see eye to eye and trust becomes a major, major thing in it. So, you know, without naming names or anything, you know, what uh you know, you've you've had some some rough partner stories, you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Couple, you know, not not anything that couldn't couldn't be dealt with, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 49:15

But kind of how did they generate?

SPEAKER_00 49:17

I mean, you got a a deal, everybody's lined up and they're you know, everybody says you're doing these houses and making money. Like in the beginning, I had a partner earlier in Memphis and and uh a guy, he was from New Orleans actually. And uh New Orleans. Absolutely, absolutely. I don't know if I'll ever do business a little again again. But uh anyway, yeah, so you know, just somebody not knowing your what you do as good as you do, and then they wake up and say, Oh, what about this, or what about that? Or, you know, uh accounting's a hard thing to deal with when you have partners. Right. Yeah that's probably one of the biggest, biggest problems people have probably partnerships have is the accounting.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

And not having that flexibility that you need sometimes to make things work.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's very uh it's difficult in some of those ways. But but we made it through. And we don't we we take on some some partners in certain situations and limited partnerships, but we don't take any uh just partner partners like that.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

So well you learn where you're comfortable and you learn where to put the guardrails up. Yeah. And communication in document form. Oh, yeah. If it's not that's that's the biggest lesson that I've learned in business. Yeah. Uh I probably actually the single biggest uh lesson, whether I'm having uh addition added to my home or even a room painted or you name it.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

If it is not written down, yeah, it does not exist. Yeah. And, you know, even among friends, because perception becomes, you know, a big factor in it. And that is one of the things that I've beat into my boys' heads and our our girls, everybody that'll listen is hey, y'all can be best friends, and that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_02 51:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Work it all out on paper, cover all your bases so nobody's caught off guard.

SPEAKER_00 51:20

Receipts, receipts, receipts, and then make sure nobody's printing receipts. Yes. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 51:26

It happens, it is kind of gotta watch, but yeah, I agree. But uh, you know, there's times where you can't carry the load, you know, all on your own. Right. You know, you need a partner to get certain deals done. Sure. And uh, you know, it's just something that you need to be aware of the of what the potential is, good and bad, and and guard yourself and guard them as well. You know, it's fair to everybody. Yeah. So, you know, and that kind of brings up uh partnership that uh I know I rely on, and that's my faith, you know, and I know it's an important part uh for you as well. You know, uh men like you, you know, we're on the line, we're under uh a kind of pressure that, you know, if it doesn't break you, you know, you in order for it not to break you, let me rephrase that. You know, you gotta have something strong to hold on to. And uh faith is that component for a lot of people. Right. I I truly um I feel sorry for the people who don't have it because I didn't have it at one point, you know, or at least not to the degree I should have and in the direction I should have. And I know the weight that I dealt with on my own, not having it and what it means now, you know, to have that. And so kind of, you know, where does that align with you?

SPEAKER_00 52:54

I mean, uh it's a daily struggle. Um I mean I believe in God and and but I also believe we're none of us are perfect either. So it it's a hard, it's a hard balance. Um you catch yourself looking down on yourself and you're like, man, you know, you're trying to be perfect every way you can, and just you're not ever gonna be perfect here on this earth. Right. Uh some people get real close, but some people don't get real close too. Right. I'm probably one of those people that don't get real close all the time. But I at least at least I know when it's going on, you know what I'm saying? I'm not oblivious to it for sure. But uh so yeah, I know God's a big deal for us. And uh um, you know, I was in the hospital not too long ago for with that reaction, and uh, you know, I've never been prayed for so much in my life or done so much praying in my life. Right. Uh in that last in that two or three weeks. So and you're here.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

It all worked. Yeah, you know, absolutely. And you know, that's that's something that uh for me increasingly, you know, is prayer. Um didn't really believe in in prayer before. Um but you know, a lot of people use it selfishly, you know, only when they're in trouble, yeah, they reach out. But, you know, and it's very valuable in those times, but having that daily, you know, conversation with yourself and with God and running some things past him, and um, you know, is is one of the releases, almost a meditation that I try to, it may be in my car, it may be, you know, in the shower, just wherever you can grab it, you know, but it but trying to have that. Um, you know, do you find that prayer is when you're trying to make that decision that you're on the line about, you know what you're getting ready to step off into, and it's scary.

SPEAKER_00 55:01

It's funny that you're bringing that up because here recently in my life, I'm 52 years old. And I can't say earlier in my career I ever did because I didn't. I think I was just getting prepared to get to another level where I did. Right. And uh so now I catch myself doing that. Um especially last in the last month or so, like things were brought to my attention pretty hard. So I got real. Um, you know, I believe in God. I'm I've been the worst praying guy ever because I believe I'm I'm bouncing around, I'm doing so much, it's hard for me to just stop. Right.

SPEAKER_01 55:42

Yeah, I know the feeling. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

But I have been here more lately than I ever have in my life.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

So and you're just used to carrying it all. Yeah. You know, and you know, that was uh, well, first of all, I wasn't Christian, you know, so my God was just kind of my God, and you know, I made him into who I wanted him to be. But um, you know, so it took some of the effectiveness of of prayer. You know, I still believe there was a God, but um, you know, ha really having that true purpose, that true understanding beyond what I'd constructed myself, having a place to put some of this stuff, you know, saying, show me. Yeah, you know, I'm putting it in your hands. That yeah, you know, I was driving down the road the other day, and that uh saying in the song, actually the country music song, you know, Jesus Take the Wheel. Well, guess what? What you got to believe in Jesus before you can let him take the wheel. That's right. And that's kind of where I was in life, you know, and now there's still those times where I'm like, I've gone as far as I can go mentally, physically, everything. God, I don't know where you want this to end up, but you're gonna have to take it. And there's a relief in doing that. Yeah. In knowing I'm I'm gonna be here, I'm gonna keep plugging, but you're gonna have to show me some direction.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:10

And it happens. Yeah. And that's the the crazy thing. So I know it happened to me. Is there a time that it's happened for you, you know, where you're like, this doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_00 57:21

Yeah. Um you know, how I I think in and what I've done is everything moves so fast it's hard for me to stop and go, and in years past before here recently, I always had to make a decision that quick. And I always knew that time is of the essence and you gotta move fast and you gotta get this done. So I was very guilty of it for a long time, not even taking it in consideration. But here, you know, like we spoke, it's uh the as the portfolio gets bigger, as you have a little bit more time because you're not doing everything, like you have a little time to pray and go, hey man, what's going on here? What do I what do I need to do? Right, you know. Right. And uh it's it's it's kind of ironic we're having this conversation because it just kind of happened in my life pretty recently.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Yeah. Well, I mean, and I know people out, most people that are gonna listen to this don't know what happened. Yeah, but you know, you were innovated for a while. You were out, you know, that was serious, serious stuff, and you were the man in your operation. Yeah, you know, and uh, you know, that had to be terrifying for everyone around you and kind of a a reset when the the guy goes down, it lets everybody see, okay, where we at. Yeah, you know, yeah. And I imagine, you know, that rippled out uh pretty extensively. And as a way, it also, you know, I saw this happen with my grandfather. You know, he had a surgery that went wrong and ended up he was on ventilator for weeks. Didn't think he was gonna make it, and um he did. And it was kind of a reset, you know, as far as okay, I need to get my shit in order. Yeah. Because I've taken all this on every I know where all my pieces are, but no one else does. Yeah. And it's kind of God's way of saying, okay, let's let's let's get dialed in a little. And uh, you know, I'm keeping you around for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Yeah, and that that was for me too. I mean, it was a big thing for me. Yeah. Um it just kind of opens your eyes a little bit. Right. You know, you're used to doing your own thing and um just slows you down a little bit. I think it's a good thing. Right. You know. Yeah. So this was kind of your your turn turning point in a way. I I feel like uh it was a it was a reset into uh just the way I approach things, probably. Um and then, you know, I've been praying more now than I ever have. Yeah. It's funny, it sometimes you get you have to get dunked under the water to uh to uh kind of wake up a little. You know, just get you out of your daily motions that you've been in for years and years and years and years and years. Right, right. You know, to to try to make everything work all the way, you know, every time that you do something.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:19

Well, God has a way of getting our attention, and some of us are a little more hard-headed and stubborn than others.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

I know I am Yeah, me as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:26

Yeah, so it can be pretty extreme, you know, that attention getting, but uh in the end you kind of see the purpose for it. And um, you know, that's still where I'm at on my journey as well as you know, uh exploring that on a daily basis, you know. Uh what what do you have for me? Yeah. You know, what's what's today or this week gonna bring? Yeah. And uh, you know, and that leads to everybody's or I not everybody, but a lot of people are like, I don't see how you do what you do, you know, and it's that kind of resiliency that we develop and you know, hard work, knowing what work is, being proud and fulfilled through achievement and just grinding and doing your best work that you can do is a key to it. But the biggest key for weathering out, you know, for me, the stuff that is looking back is just almost insurmountable. Um, you know, uh for a long time it was just my family. Yeah, it was that they were depending on me. And uh now it's family and and my faith, yeah, you know, that gives me that resiliency. You know, I think some of it is also DNA. I come from a long line of laborers, you know, as you do. Yeah. Uh so some of that's just beat into us and built into us, and you, you know, you can't deny that component. But uh for you, I mean, where do you think those those align, you know, as far as importance?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:02

Um, yeah, I mean, I feel the same way. Um, you know, we we worked hard for years and years and years, and go work hard to make your breaks and and um, you know, over the years, I just figure if I worked harder than everybody else, I'd do better than everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

That's also your that's your fallback too, at least it was for me. You know, when I make a bad decision or I hit hit I always knew physically I could work my way through it or work my way out of it. Yeah. You know, as we get a little older, that realization starts creeping up that we don't have quite that capacity. That's been mine over the past couple of years through some of these crazy uh ventures that we've gotten into is that you know, that physical fallback of I'll burn it, man. Yeah, you know, I'm gonna I will labor my way out of this starts not being the fallback that you once had. So you gotta you gotta start being a little smarter.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:07

Well, to do that and at home too, you know, you're working late hours every night and you're leaving earlier than everybody else, and there's just no uh uh consistency. Right. So I did it for many, many, many, many years. I've worked till you know, I get up at three in the morning, go to work and get on a dozer or something, or just because I knew I could get stuff done before people got there and you know, just make my day easier. Yeah, but it was making it a little tougher at home sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:37

And that's kind of you know, where we're going with this is you know, what are we doing this for? And, you know, um, you know, what is the reason? I I know what it was for me, you know, it was trying to create financial stability where I never experienced that before. Yeah. Um, trying to build a life for my family that had that factor built into it. Yeah. Um but uh you know, everybody's a little different, you know. They come from, you know, what what is it for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

Uh that that's it for me. I mean, I don't um sadly enough, I money is money. It's it's just paper. Yep. Um I do it for you know, I d I do it for my family. That's what I did it for. And uh I wanted my family to have a little bit more, you know, just be in a good position, basically. And uh I know how hard it is to get, you know, to make some headway if you don't get left uh, you know, a hundred million dollars or something like that, you know what I'm saying? So uh and it would and it was about the um uh I've always liked doing some pretty complex things, um, just to see if I could do it. Uh so I do that, and but the main part is my family. Right. And uh leaving that. Money to me is just paper. Yeah. I don't I'm I'm gonna say this. I I mean I care about being a good steward of money, but I don't care about money like people care about money.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

Yeah. And I think we share that as well. You know, while I I have always wanted stability, yeah, it's always, and money obviously is a component of that. It is not the driving force. And, you know, I look at other people where that is the driving force, and they have a lot more of it than I do, you know. But you you've got to hit a balance of some level, you know, and you know, that's a challenge. It has been a challenge for me, it continues to be a challenge for me, is you know, the benefit versus the sacrifice. And it's not just you, and it's not just your time, and it's not just your body, it's your family. Yeah, you're doing it. For your family, but you're also sacrificing your family a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:05

And you know, how do you that's a fine line? Yeah. How do you balance out?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

You got two two young girls. Yeah. You know, 31-year-old boy, and then 30. Yeah. And then Dylan is my stepson. He's 21. And then um seven and six-year-old. Yeah. That Amy and I had, you know, seven it started seven years ago. So right. They're growing fast. Yeah. So I mean, I've been busier in my life if they as as they've been baby children, and I probably ever have been in my life, so it's tough. Yeah. Um, but I'm I'm hoping that in the next handful of years I can be to a point where I can really enjoy time with them when they come through their rough years. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:47

Yeah. And that's the And I guess having you know had a 31-year-old son, he was kind of your guinea pig, just like all of our first. Yeah, I was too when we hadn't had our first. And you know, so you learn you learn a little bit on that and hopefully try to be a little better person. You start realizing the speed of life as well. And uh I know that's been a realization that that we're starting to have. We got our first grandbaby on the way, and you know, so it's kind of a a shock, a welcome shock, you know. But it's like, hey, you're getting old, brother. Yeah. And these kids grow up quick. Yeah. Yeah. So it's uh it's like you said, it's always a balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:34

But it's funny, you know, uh I with my son, he's 31 and and he's come to work for us now. So he's working with us now. And so it's it's funny how life just kind of goes in circles sometimes and things happen.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:50

Well, we try to build a platform for our kids, at least to or the next generation, to come land if they want to, and if they can contribute as well, and that's also something that that you have to weigh out. Um, and that's what we've tried to do. You know, we've tried to create these businesses and work really hard to get them get them started so that the kids can see as they are growing up what it takes, they can learn that resiliency, they can learn what a real hard work day is, yeah, or week, or months, or years. Yeah, you know, and then they can take it to that next level. You know, that's what I want to see, and that's what we're seeing is that they've learned from our mistakes, they've learned from our successes, and they benefit from our wisdom because we're getting old and we've been through all these battles, and if they'll just listen and put it with their resilience and their energy and their new ideas and their understanding of technology and processes and all that, man, they can take it to the next level. Yeah. Then we can sit back and watch something that we started grow. And that's that's kind of where we're at right now. Yeah. We're still in the trenches a little bit, but yeah, you know, like you are. But it's you can see that on the horizon. You can see it coming.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

Yeah. I think the hard part is when you're doing better and you, you know, you're making enough money where kids can have a lot of things and do a lot of things, and then you got to keep them t tuned down too, right? Yes, yes. So that's a hard part too. That's a whole nother part of the equation that's kind of hard. Yeah. And uh, you know, I don't, you know, that that's a hard part of this equation. I've seen it happen a lot of people where they get wealthy and they work hard and they build a, you know, they build up their lives and and then the children are just go.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:50

Yeah. Well, you don't want your kids to ever suffer.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:54

You don't want it, but you gotta allow it to happen. Yeah. In a controlled environment. They have to feel some pain to appreciate what they get, you know, and that's been something that Kara and I have tried to balance. Um, you know, I'm a big big believer that that pain teaches lessons better than just about anything. And failure teaches the best lessons as well. You know, it it it success is great. Yeah. Um, but you know, failure and assessing why you failed and not doing it again, you know, that allows you to to not experience that failure at a higher level where it can just wipe every everything out. These little failures, learning from them, accepting them, if it's something you did or something the market did or something, you know, yeah. Take it for what it is. Learn from it. Use truth as your guide and roll on with it and be wiser from it. And uh, but you nailed it. I mean, we see it a lot. And I understand parents not wanting, you know, they they see, we've made it, we've got a lot of extra income, we can take care of these kids, they don't have to have to do anything, you know, or they can have a pretend job and they can travel to Kaibo every few weeks or whatever. But you're crippling them, and you're crippling the next generation because they'll burn through that yeah, I I won't ever be that parent. Yeah, they're gonna have to do something. Yep. No, and that's what we drive too, and I think that is very important, you know, to and it's a balance though, you know, you don't want to push them away, but uh you want to guide them. Yeah. And uh keep them hungry. Keep them hungry, keep them moving. That's right. That's right. But so, you know, we've talked about family, we've talked about faith. You know, you have to have the environment to grow, you know. And when I'm talking about the environment, I'm talking about, you know, our country, you know, some crazy shit going on right now in the country. You know, we're seeing uh areas that have traditionally just been boom town turning into ghost towns and people voting with their feet. I mean, there's a mass capital exodus out of out of some places into other places, like Dallas Fort Worth area, is the one that comes to mind closest to us. You know, what do you see happening there?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

Man, that's you know, it's it's funny you say that because it's it's been so um it's so easy to see in the last probably ten years. I thought say ten years or so. It's just become it's become a pretty bad situation. Um you know, I like Arkansas. We live in a little town called Hot Springs. We got the best of both worlds, pretty much. I mean, you know, we got lakes and mountains and national parks and all kinds of stuff to do. Right. So we're pretty spoiled here. And somewhat insulated from some of the um city governments that get uh lopsided in the wrong way.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:08

Yeah, some of the politics and craziness that we see elsewhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

You know, I think it starts in in just little increments that people don't notice. Is like what is your city and your counties doing to you, you know, a little bit at a time. Right. Okay, you gotta do this, you gotta do that, you gotta do this. And I've I've learned that a lot. You know, as I start developing property, I I start learning a lot more about those little situations where they just there's always another step, and always another step. And then eventually makes it difficult.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:45

Yeah. And if they don't, if it's not controlled, if everybody's not looking at the big picture, then you end up being like uh San Francisco. You know, where you can't even put an addition on a house without, you know, a total act of the entire city government, you know, checking off on it. And millions of dollars and you know, this this and that. You know, so in your opinion, you know, what are some of the biggest things that let's just start with city, because that's really where where it where it begins, the good and the bad, in in my opinion. You know, what are some things that a city government needs to keep in mind on the big picture, like bringing in development? I mean, development is what drives your economy. Yeah. And, you know, so you know, where are you seeing things? For instance, in hot springs, I mean, I know we're sitting in a pretty good area, you know, uh, for a lot of reasons. You know, we don't see a lot of the giant swings, you know, we don't see the big booms, but we also don't see the big busts. Yeah. Uh we've got a government, both state and city, that are at least somewhat, you know, cordial to development. But uh, you know, what have you seen that's worked? You've worked in some different municipalities. Um, what have you seen some of the biggest things that they can do to help and some of the biggest things that are hindrances on this?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:15

Well, you know, it's in a in a smaller city like that, it's very polar polarizing because if you're doing something large, a large-scale job, and they're not used to people coming in and doing large-scale things, you know, large-scale things. Um it can get a little nerve-wracking uh dealing with with city boards and things like that. Um and then just the way that our you know, way that the city runs, you know. I'm not a big proponent of the way that Hot Springs is set up, to tell you the truth. I think there ought to be a a paid mayor, and I think you ought to have some qualifications to be on city council, just not run. Right. Like there's some things that I think could could help. Right. Because some people just run to run, right? Yeah. And uh so uh but overall, we we've done a pretty good job here in Hot Springs um making some headway, breaking through some thought processes of you know, we're you know, we're gonna let some people come in and and do some good things in town.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

So the um, you know, and uh politics really starts being a factor in a lot of this. Uh, you know, some of it's self-serving, some of it's just politics or politics. But um, you know, being a developer and being a business guy, I know how I feel about this, but have you ever thought about getting into politics and shaking it up a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

Um you know, I I've it's the thought has come across my mind, but but it shuts down pretty quick. Yeah. Just because everything I have to deal with already. Right. Yeah, and there's no way that I could do both. There's just no way I could do both.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:10

You know, and I think that's what limits uh that's why politicians are politicians, is because they're not doing anything else, in my opinion. You know, the guys and girls that could really make some difference, the ones that are on the ground driving through all of this mess. Some of them for sure. Yeah, the ones that need to be in politics, but we we don't have the the bandwidth to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:35

Yeah. Um it's a good point. Yeah. Like what do you expect to get out of some people that that they end up becoming just politicians? Right. Right. Yeah. So I mean, um it it's a very good point. A very valid, very valid.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:54

I think that it I think we need to, you know, uh change some of the obligation for politics, you know, for these positions, you know, as far as uh the time needs to be spent very directed so that it allows people outside the norm to get into it and be able to make a difference. You know, because time is is key. Yeah, we have very little time to expend on on anything. Yeah. Um but I think that if given the right framework to work within, where we can say, okay, yeah, I can I can carve out a couple hours a week or a couple hours a month, you know, as long as it's directed properly, you know, might be able to to to make something happen there.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

I think w the way that we we're giving back is we're trying to help like, you know, with what we're doing in town, taking on projects nobody's willing to do. Um I think that's where we've kind of made some headway, and maybe we'll be able to help the city a little bit that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:02

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:02

Right. Um and just need a little cooperation, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:05

Of course. And I just see them, you know, also, you know, the the common thing on the TV now is, you know, just all the waste. You know, in government in general. And we, you know, we see a little taste of that citywide too. You know. What are you focusing your efforts on?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:25

You know, and how could you better use those funds? You know, the the thing until I got into owning property, especially commercial property, I really didn't think a lot about property taxes. Property taxes are crippling. Yeah. And what are they being used for? You know, I know you've got big, big projects, and you know, that's just uh that's something that, you know, I never really calculated in a whole lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:57

But yeah, you don't until you start getting those bills, then it's and then it's uh mine just continually grow. My my my taxes get bigger and bigger and bigger. Yeah. So I gotta I have to always figure out a way to to help myself there.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:11

Right. Spread it out a little. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really the only thing you can do. Yeah. You know, it um it's it's just uh it's shocking how much is paid in and and how it's misused in a lot of cases.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

I think I think the misuse is a big deal. And I mean, I have a way to to solve it, you know. If we could put our politicians on uh just give them a lie detector test every quarter and pay them a million dollars a year, we'd probably save a whole lot more money. Right. I mean, pay them more. Yeah. Let's just do it the right way. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:49

Take some of that uh that good old uh putting it in the palm uh out of the equation. Yeah. You know, and I even see it in the school systems, you know, it's just not a cat there's no accountability for spending. Yeah. You know, it's just you know, now we're throwing around trillions of dollars, like billions and that were millions before that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:11

And well, even at the state level, you know, you got all these lobbyists hanging out at the Capitol. Yeah, everybody, everybody every next law of your mate's a lobbyist and want something for something, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:20

So yeah, yeah. It's kind of a greasy system. It is. And the people are the ponds, and we are as people who are trying to build and and create, you know, we're the ones that they keep adding another tap to, you know, and uh and draining us. And you know, that's another thing that I'm seeing on this migration, this economic migration. You know, taxes are a big part of it. You know, you look at, I mean, it's predictable, and they still do it, you know. So this inability to accept what reality will do you, you know, if you raise the taxes on, you know, like New York is doing the wealth taxes and all this crazy stuff, that's gonna push your tax base away. And then they're begging for them to come back. Yeah. You know, what do you expect?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:09

Yeah. I think that'll be a cycle that'll be very identifiable.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Yeah. But you look at who suffers. Yeah. You who suffers are the people who can't move. Right. You know, they're stuck there. And that's usually the middle income people. And middle income now is spreading a pretty wide gap, you know. And um, you know, it uh in a lot of places we would be low income. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It um, you know, so it it's it's starting to get uh get scary and and the people in the middle are the ones that that pay the cost. You know, the the ultra wealthy that are being hit with this stuff, they can move anywhere in the world. Yeah. They can hop on their jet and you know, drop it and be in another country and not pay any taxes. Yeah, and that's the other thing that the country has to look at, yeah, as well. So it really ripples out, but it all starts so local, you know, and then and then carries forward. Yeah. And it's just sensibility. Okay, man, just look at how this has played out in the past. Yeah, you can see it. You can see it. But um well, I think we've covered a lot of range. Now, this is the final thing that I want to talk about, is something I battle with uh on an increasing level because I don't have the answer. And that is when is enough enough? Or is enough enough? You know, where is our getting off point? You know, what what is that to you? I'm curious. I because I honestly I've got some ideas, but it's a really difficult uh thing to think about.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:55

You know, everybody always says, what's your number? What what's your number? What's your goal? And it and as you do things and you grow, your number changes sometimes. Right. So uh it ain't about the money, though, it's about getting to a point. Well, the other thing is you're hiring people, you have families that work for you, you know this. You you've got a lot of people that depend on you. You want to see them do good. Well, if you stop, you know, they they gotta change, you know, they either keep going right there or they gotta do something else too. So it becomes a more about not about you, about kind of growing and um as far as me, you know, that's you know, we're doing some bigger deals now. And I think the bigger deals are actually easier than the the little deals as long as you have capital. Um just because the scale is uh it just complet it it takes a lot less to to deal with you know, 200 units over here, 100 units over here, whatever than this house over there and that house over there. And that's the other thing.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:08

Well the investors are more apt to invest in a bigger potential retirement expense.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

And institutional money, right? Which what we dealt with when I was in the bond business. I mean, you know, you know what they're after. So um so you know, as far as me, I think I'll just get tired at some point. I'll be like, okay, I'm good. But I don't know where that is either. I'm not sure. Probably another 10 years for me or so. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:37

Well, we probably I uh I'm looking for our next generation to kind of take the reins. And you know, we uh that's what we're aiming for. You know, we had a business that we built up, clinical business, and you know, what I was battling through all these people that worked for us for years. I tried to find the best steward to hand it off to um because I was tired. And we the industry was being challenged by a lot of things that I just didn't see the opportunities like they were for a you know privately held, you know, smaller uh operation. So, you know, felt like we needed to get under that bigger umbrella. And at that point, I looked at, okay, well, you know, we'll get out of that and we'll transition into this and have a little bit more time for life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:33

Well, all I did is double down on more business, you know, but uh I have to commend you for that because there's a lot of people that wouldn't take those projects on, you know, and wouldn't do that. And this community really needed those projects done. Right. So I mean I think it's uh I think you recognized the need. You went after it and you did it.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:53

Even though you a little reluctant, probably or whatever, you know, it's like well, we knew enough to know what what a little bit of what we were getting into, but this is kind of where you know you fall back on faith and you fall back on a bigger purpose, yeah. And things kind of falling in place that don't really make sense um otherwise. And you know, you just gotta put your head down and keep keep going. You know, I um I was uh you know, yesterday was a tough day. You know, I'm uh I'm line cooking right now, you know, yeah, and wasn't feeling too good. We've been we've had a month of hard, hard work trying to find play people to come in and take over some of these positions. And my son's been right there with me, you know. He's been standing in the line, and you know, I was feeling kind of sorry for myself and wasn't feeling too good. I'm tired and sore and hot and everything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:54

But I looked over and I'm like, I'm here with my son. Yeah, we're grinding together. We're learning together and we're gonna be stronger for it. Yeah. And at the marina, it's the same thing. You know, I'm able to work with my boys and see them grow and see them mature. And I know big things are in store. I just gotta kind of keep on going. And faith is kind of where where that aligns for me. And had I not had it, I would have given up this year. Yeah. But there are some points this year where I would have said, enough's enough. I'm done. Um but we persevered, we pushed through, and we're better for it. You know. It's uh it's pretty amazing, you know, what's happened. But one of the realizations that that I'm sure you're coming to and you know I definitely wrestle with is you know, time is finite. You know, we only have so much time, and uh, you know, we only have so much time where we're physically capable of doing certain things. I mean that that kind of whittles down as we age, you know, and it's part of you know, part of being human, part of sticking around. Yeah. You know, and I know in my realization of that now, you know, there are probably some things I would have done a little different. I might have enjoyed certain things a little little more, taking maybe not taking on this project at this time. I mean, do you have any of those?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:38

Oh, is that I think there's always one or two of those somewhere. But um, you know, I I've just always been on the mentality I'm gonna push until it pushes back harder. Right. Yeah. Then I'm gonna push some more. Like if I get to a point where I want to, you know, just kind of slow down, I will. Right. Um like we said, you know, it comes, it's it's it's getting to that point now where it's um it's getting to that point now where it's pushing a little bit, but right. Well, we still got some growth. We go four or five years, six years, something like that. And then I think I think we could um we could have a good spot to be in.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:24

God willing.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:25

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:26

Yeah, there's a lot of things that are definitely out of our control. We just kind of have to have to roll with it and pray a lot and look for that guidance. You know, and it's uh that's a it's a wrestling match right now, you know, is is finding that time when you know you can see that you're getting close, but man, it's tough, you know. And do I back off now and take that vacation, or do I push another few months or another year and and sacrifice it? Again, you know, are there things that I can get back, or have I lost things in that effort? Yeah, you know, and that's that's really the the balance. Uh again, that just kind of goes back to reflection and you know having that partner as well that kind of uh pushes back on you a little bit and slaps you into reality and wakes you up, you know. So I know you've got that with Amy. You know, y'all are partners in a lot of stuff and life and family and business.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:30

And you know, I'm sure not easy, two little kids and two full-time businesses. Yeah. Um, but uh there there's a lot of people doing that having a lot worse, you know. So yeah, yeah. Uh we'll take what we can get and move on down the road, you know. Absolutely, brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:31:46

So well, Joe, I can't thank you enough. I know you're busy, man, and uh a couple hours out of our day is a sacrifice. Oh, that's awesome. And I appreciate you uh, you know, sacrificing that for this this podcast. And yeah, I've enjoyed having you on. I hope some people get something out of our discussion because you know, life is a journey and life is not easy. Yeah, and you gotta be tough and grind through it, but there's a purpose for everybody. Absolutely. If you put the effort in and keep your head straight and not let it beat you down too bad, you know, you're gonna make it. Yeah, tell the truth, do the right thing, work hard. Truth. That's it. Absolutely. Well, brother, thank you again. Yes, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you. Look forward to seeing you out and about.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:31

Yes, sir.